Total Motorcycle Community Forums

ANDS! wrote:I'm sure there are a healthy number of people riding safely on the streets who both have and haven't taken this course.

Yup, there are a healthy number of people riding on the streets who have not taken a course.

And know what?

They are grossly ovverrepresented in accident statistics.

jstark47 wrote:I gotta disagree with both you guys a little bit. (I rode a Honda Reflex for 9 months before I rode a street motorcycle, then continued to switch back and forth for a while.) The maxi-scooters have both strong similarities to and differences from motorcycles. Weight and horsepower are comparable to smaller motorcycles. The same principles of counter-steering and leaning apply, but the physical actions involved are somewhat different due to no straddling and no footpegs to weight. Auto trans., of course. Scooter lean angles can be pretty radical, but low-speed handling can be a pain 'cause of long wheelbase and no clutch to feather. Eye discipline (go where you look) is the same. And all the street positioning skills for surviving traffic are the same.

I'm with jstark. Veda took the MSF but that was mostly so she could learn how to clutch on someone else's bike. When she returns she can comment more on this - but from her experience, and then my own on her scooter..the adjustments aren't that different if the person has been a serious scooterist (rather than someone who has just ridden one before).

Weighting/counterweighting does apply. Countersteering applies, and the most important IMO - target fixation/learning how to look where you need to go applies.

If you think that because a scooter is automatic you can't get quickly in trouble, you've obviously not ridden many scooters. Veda's vino 125 had enough pick up and go to get plenty of people in trouble if they weren't paying attention.

If we had a beater bike and MSF had been blocked out for her til July, we likely would have gone the route the OP was talking about.

To the OP - I 2nd or 3rd what Storysunfolding said. While the course is your best bet for learning, I don't think you're going to die or immediately kill others trying to teach yourself. It just gives you a leg up on maneuvers and procedures in a safe environment. Definitely make sure you do at least a few hours of practice in a big parking lot before you think about going on any streets.

jonnythan wrote:

ANDS! wrote:I'm sure there are a healthy number of people riding safely on the streets who both have and haven't taken this course.

Yup, there are a healthy number of people riding on the streets who have not taken a course.

And know what?

They are grossly ovverrepresented in accident statistics.

I'd like to see those stats.

You guys realize that the MSF BRC doesn't prepare you for the street right?

It's designed to promote a safe introduction to motorcycling. Most instructors finish by saying the students are now ready to ride in a parking lot.

Dragonhawk wrote:

duster wrote:I have already read the beginner guide on this site. I have ridden a scooter, rode many bicycles and know how to drive a manual car. I understand how the clutch works. I am going to be learning on a 200 cc motorcycle.

What's your zodiac sign?

It's about as relevant as those other things for learning to ride a motorcycle.

Never, never, never, never think that a motorcycle is like a scooter or a bicycle. That will get you into trouble REALLY fast. They are NOTHING alike. The physics of powering a 30lb. machine with your feet and a 400lb. machine with 50HP at the flick of a wrist is COMPLETELY different.

Oh, and also [deleted]. He shouldn't teach himself, but the above is scaremongering. Be careful, but you can transfer your skills to this(200cc) bike. It ain't easy, but with an instructor, its possible.

Good luck.

storysunfolding wrote:You guys realize that the MSF BRC doesn't prepare you for the street right?

It's designed to promote a safe introduction to motorcycling. Most instructors finish by saying the students are now ready to ride in a parking lot.

That's a line that's repeated by guys who are opposed to the class for some reason.

MSF does prepare you for the street. It teaches you about traffic, cornering skills and strategies, and accident avoidance.

MSF does *not* give you street experience. You need to apply the skills and strategies learned in class to riding on the street.

Jonnythan-

I'm in no way opposed to the course. I don't think it should give you a license but that's a different tangent. The course gives you the tools you need but you need to take those skills and work on them before you are ready for the street. It's not recommended that you hop on a bike and ride home from the MSF. People can do horribly on the skills test and still pass. They are in no way prepared for the street.

Take my use of prepare the same way you would with a meal. When a meal is prepared it's ready to eat- it becomes a meal. The MSF BRC does not prepare students to be riding on the street, they do not become riders. It gives them tools and techniques that they need to work on themselves to prepare for the street.

Don't let these guys scare you. MSF is a GREAT way to introduce yourself to bikes but it's not 100% necessary. I taught myself how to ride on a KZ750 which is a pretty big and fast bike - at least it was when I got it. There were no Internet chat forums, I didn't read any books(though reading PROFICIENT MOTORCYCLING is a great idea), and I didn't even know anyone who rode. I never had an accident until I was on my third motorcycle. (If I knew then what I know now, I would've at least gotten a few books and probably taken MSF.)

Scooter experience DOES help. Mostly because you already realize that you're invisible and have already developed some of the vision and evasion skills you will need to sruvive in the road.

Countrary to what a prior poster opined, countersteering DOES apply to bicycles and scoots. It's basic physics that it does. If anyone here doesn't believe me, hop on a bicycle, get it going at a decent clip and push on the right handlebar - I guarantee that you will turn to the right. Same with a scoot. HOWEVER, given the MC-your body weight ratio and fork geometry, it will be a bit different so don't assume a MC will ride/turn JUST LIKE a scoot.

Here's a pretty good site that has some pointers and parking lot practice exercises that will help you out: http://bcrider.com/startriding.html

Take it easy, practice A LOT in parking lots and you can do it if you're careful. Gearing up properly is of course a very good idea.

If possible, find someone who has riding experience to be your mentor. IF not, post your questions here and on other boards. Heck, even if you can find a mentor, it's a good idea to validate what they tell you on Internet forums.

Good luck and have (safe and cautious)fun.

And sign up for the course anyway and take it in July.

As someone who waited *eight* months to take the first course available I can advise that you will not die.

Also they have standby for people that don't show up to the class. Many people get in earlier this way. I work weekends and nights, so it wasn't an option for me.

jonnythan wrote:

ANDS! wrote:I'm sure there are a healthy number of people riding safely on the streets who both have and haven't taken this course.

Yup, there are a healthy number of people riding on the streets who have not taken a course.

And know what?

They are grossly ovverrepresented in accident statistics.

They're also the vast majority of motorcyclists.