Total Motorcycle Community Forums

Pittance wrote:
The great thing about capitalism is that people will drive the market and there will always be people wanting to make money any way they can. If dealers stop making money on gear, they'll make it other places. Increased cost of used and new bikes and such. Also, if dealers stop having gear in stores, the demand for trying on gear will get fairly high. The market will then respond in some way to this demand. Gear could come flying back at the same price as before, or maybe newenough.com outlets anyone? Maybe newenough will respond by having you pay a deposit and send you 2-3 sizes of the gear you want, with free shipping for the ones you send back?

Any way, its great if you want to be loyal to a store you love, but changing your habits of frugal shopping just to artificially save a business that can't compete any longer will only hurt the market in the long run and delay the change. The stock market crash and the depression sucked, but we got a ton of experience and insight from the screwup. FDIC for one thing, general public knowledge of economy, etc.

There are sooooo many things that your not taking into account. Supporting a local vendor isn't "artificially" saving a buisness. Its a LOT MORE than that. Its about good service, its about spending money locally, its about not buying things that require MORE shipping/energy costs, Its about building a PERSONAL relationship with people at a brick-and-mortar location, Its about getting the RIGHT product because you can put your hands on it. Buying locally is also less fraught with identity theft and scam artists, creates jobs in your town, not in a warehouse somewhere, supports LOCAL tax bases and programs that you probably use every day. There are a TON of reasons to buy locally, from environmental/green reasons to keeping money local. NONE of those things is a negative.

As well, to assert that if the majority of Gear dissapears from local shops that the demand for try-on will increase is a fallacy. Over and over again, its been proven with e-commerce, that customers are willing to give up convenience and service for price. The problem here comes in that we are talking saftey equipment, not an I-Pod, fit and service are important!

PLEASE, buy locally when you can!!

MrShake wrote:

Pittance wrote:
The great thing about capitalism is that people will drive the market and there will always be people wanting to make money any way they can. If dealers stop making money on gear, they'll make it other places. Increased cost of used and new bikes and such. Also, if dealers stop having gear in stores, the demand for trying on gear will get fairly high. The market will then respond in some way to this demand. Gear could come flying back at the same price as before, or maybe newenough.com outlets anyone? Maybe newenough will respond by having you pay a deposit and send you 2-3 sizes of the gear you want, with free shipping for the ones you send back?

Any way, its great if you want to be loyal to a store you love, but changing your habits of frugal shopping just to artificially save a business that can't compete any longer will only hurt the market in the long run and delay the change. The stock market crash and the depression sucked, but we got a ton of experience and insight from the screwup. FDIC for one thing, general public knowledge of economy, etc.

There are sooooo many things that your not taking into account. Supporting a local vendor isn't "artificially" saving a buisness. Its a LOT MORE than that. Its about good service, its about spending money locally, its about not buying things that require MORE shipping/energy costs, Its about building a PERSONAL relationship with people at a brick-and-mortar location, Its about getting the RIGHT product because you can put your hands on it. Buying locally is also less fraught with identity theft and scam artists, creates jobs in your town, not in a warehouse somewhere, supports LOCAL tax bases and programs that you probably use every day. There are a TON of reasons to buy locally, from environmental/green reasons to keeping money local. NONE of those things is a negative.

As well, to assert that if the majority of Gear dissapears from local shops that the demand for try-on will increase is a fallacy. Over and over again, its been proven with e-commerce, that customers are willing to give up convenience and service for price. The problem here comes in that we are talking saftey equipment, not an I-Pod, fit and service are important!

PLEASE, buy locally when you can!!

Going green does seem to be gaining momentum with everything nowadays. But I think because much of the money spent on motorcycling gear is slapped down by people with money to spare, the whole online price savings isn't going to matter much. With discretionary items like motorcycles and the targeted market, price (although a strong influence) isn't the biggest factor.

Well, warehouses have to be built somewhere. And with international tax rates and enormous shipping rates, it makes more sense to build warehouses close to both the consumer and distributor. The warehouse I buy from is in Texas. It has excellent customer service, and is independently owned. So, just because that mom&pop decided to save themselves and their customers money by not having a storefront, they are to be avoided?

Besides, no one really cares enough to "go green". People wouldnt buy a Prius unless it saved them gas and got them tax breaks (not getting into how green is a fad and rich people will buy anything as a status symbol). If it costs people more, people won't want to do it until the social pressures are extreme. That is why it has taken so long for hydrogen and solar power technology to advance.

Also, what about an alternative? What about a store that doesnt sell bike gear, but charges you to size you? A store that knows exactly what motorcyclists need to be safe, and exactly how and what measurements to take. They then compare it to their knowledge of a makers sizing, and recommends certain jackets/helmets that they think would fit best? They may even have some for you to try on for the popular brands. You wouldnt even need a whole shop for this. Just 1 guy who knows the stuff in a dealership. The alternatives are endless, that is what will sell. If the internet takes away the desire for people to try stuff on, then clothing makers will design clothing to a standard, or offer a large amount of measurements so people will buy theirs online.

You can keep your old 1950's car around and spend thousands to keep it running, but why bother when the cost of rebuilding its engine again could net you a whole other car?

And koji, I think there is a trend recently for people who are somewhat strapped to try to budget for a bike. Im doing it now, and ive seen many other 18-25 year olds on this board looking for cheap starter bikes. Its not just a sport for the rich. for 3 grand you can start up with everything you need, its not as expensive as most people think *coughharleyscough*

Pittance wrote:
Besides, no one really cares enough to "go green". People wouldnt buy a Prius unless it saved them gas and got them tax breaks (not getting into how green is a fad and rich people will buy anything as a status symbol). If it costs people more, people won't want to do it until the social pressures are extreme. That is why it has taken so long for hydrogen and solar power technology to advance.

I'm not looking to start an argument, but this is just not true. I am FAR from rich and looking for a status symbol, but I strive to be as green as I can. I buy from local farmers markets from spring until winter. ALL of those markets only allow vendors and produce from within 100 miles of the market. I am installing rain barrels for water collection to supliment my garden water usage. during the market season, our family doesn't buy a single piece of produce from a supermarket. We are looking in to ways to purchase meats locally as well. Our plan this year is to stockpile produce and foods that can be preserved and used over the entire winter as well.
Studies and surveys have shown a marked increase in the number of local-only farmers markets across the country, and a marked increase in the number of people shopping those markets. Green isn't really a "fad" anymore. Green isn't limited to expensive items or changes any more. Its a real, actionable, affordable change in lifestyle that not only benefits the earth, but also benefits the person.



Back to the online vs local question. I'm not saying to avoid the online shop. I often buy things online. Mostly replacement, consumable things. Parts that I can't find online, or things that don't require or benefit from a hands on experience in purchase. However, I will still go TO the shop locally to buy my helmet, to get the best fit, to get real advice, and to get real service.

I always advise to go try on and buy on the net. I find however when I'm trying on helmets a salesman will come by and next thing I know he has the price down almost to the internet price and I buy it there.

Pittance wrote:Well, warehouses have to be built somewhere. And with international tax rates and enormous shipping rates, it makes more sense to build warehouses close to both the consumer and distributor. The warehouse I buy from is in Texas. It has excellent customer service, and is independently owned. So, just because that mom&pop decided to save themselves and their customers money by not having a storefront, they are to be avoided?

Besides, no one really cares enough to "go green". People wouldnt buy a Prius unless it saved them gas and got them tax breaks (not getting into how green is a fad and rich people will buy anything as a status symbol). If it costs people more, people won't want to do it until the social pressures are extreme. That is why it has taken so long for hydrogen and solar power technology to advance.

Also, what about an alternative? What about a store that doesnt sell bike gear, but charges you to size you? A store that knows exactly what motorcyclists need to be safe, and exactly how and what measurements to take. They then compare it to their knowledge of a makers sizing, and recommends certain jackets/helmets that they think would fit best? They may even have some for you to try on for the popular brands. You wouldnt even need a whole shop for this. Just 1 guy who knows the stuff in a dealership. The alternatives are endless, that is what will sell. If the internet takes away the desire for people to try stuff on, then clothing makers will design clothing to a standard, or offer a large amount of measurements so people will buy theirs online.

You can keep your old 1950's car around and spend thousands to keep it running, but why bother when the cost of rebuilding its engine again could net you a whole other car?

And koji, I think there is a trend recently for people who are somewhat strapped to try to budget for a bike. Im doing it now, and ive seen many other 18-25 year olds on this board looking for cheap starter bikes. Its not just a sport for the rich. for 3 grand you can start up with everything you need, its not as expensive as most people think *coughharleyscough*

I will not disagree that there are many bikers strapped for money and want to spend on a budget. I am one of them. However, the most cash being spent in the motorcycle marketplace is on more expensive bikes by established higher income people (the baby boomers). Using Harley Davidson as an example, the greatest volume of sales in recent years has been experienced in the more expensive bikes by people in their 40s and 50s.