Total Motorcycle Community Forums

Zagnut wrote:

Avoiding the front brake is silly. Grabbing the front brake on any surface will "drop you like a hot potato." Use it but use it properly.

Skier, the pic you posted is not a gravel road...its a hard packed dirt road ...
.

Oh, there was plenty of loose gravel in the hundreds of miles of that road, as well as freshly graded muck slicked with calcium chloride.

I agree, very hard going riding a road bike on dirt, the house we rent at the australian MGP is a loose sandy dirt road, and all of us who live in that street for that weekend have a lot of issues riding on the dirt and many have dropped their bikes riding down it.


I treat it like a wet slippery oily road, go very smooth, not to fast not to slow, and nice purposeful smooth inputs nothing sharp or hard, and hang on and hope ya dont lose the front wheel

Dont ride that slow that you need to constantly correct ya line, ride with just enough pace the bike wants to stand up.



hope that helps

use any of your brakes while turning is asking for disaster be it on a smooth cement road or gravel.

True enough.
Braking in a turn is not a good thing to do. If coming in too hot in a curve on pavement, much better results come from hard countersteering.
The time I dropped my bike I was turning off pavement downhill into a curving flex base drive. Braking on the pavement before I made the turn into the gravel drive, letting my brakes off right as I made the curve but my tire caught gravel right as I was easing off both brakes and dropped the bike. I was only going about 5mph when the tire slipped and the bike was not leaned. Had it been pavement, it wouldnt have been a problem.
I wasnt thinking gravel at the time...I was thinking about BBQ...lol...quite a wake up call. It's probabley a good thing that I dropped it cause other than two dimples in my lower muffler ...no damage to my bike... but it really drove home the lesson about getting complacent on gravel. Every time I come to gravel now, I always get a heightened sence of alertness. With a front tire in loose gravel anything other than perfectly upright and straight raises the risks.

Oh, there was plenty of loose gravel in the hundreds of miles of that road, as well as freshly graded muck slicked with calcium chloride.

I know. You can see it at the edges and in spots across the road but the good thing about those types of roads is you can usually pick out a path that stays on the hard packed areas which is not too much a problem... unless the hard packed areas are wet like you said and turn to mud... then its a different animal. I ride a heavy cruiser and hate riding through mud. I avoid at all costs. I wish I had an old Wee Strom for those types of rides.

I think Dr. Bar pretty well summed it up when he said too much input can come back to bite you. I treat it kinda like Shane-o does.. I compare it to how you drive a car on ice. the less input the better. Accelerating, braking, or turning should be done with a minimalist approach. Slowly and gently.

...and one other thing Ive noticed on roads like in Skiers pic... When traveling at speed, I like to drop it into a higher gear to lower the rpms and reduce the torque and quickness from my back tire. Accelerating in a higher gear seams to reduce the ability of my back tire to accelerate too quickly and slide out from under me.... Easy does it, basically

Skier wrote:I am absolutely amazed riders still don't think the front brake should be used, even in low-traction scenarios. It's still providing a vast majority of braking force and it's a good plan to ignore it?

Boggling.

I'm all about the front brake on the street. I trail the rear into corners a little, but that's about it.

On the dirt, I use the rear A LOT more! Heavy use of the front just washes out the front end, so it must be used more sparingly. Still it's an important part of your braking arsenal...

Zagnut wrote: Grabbing front brake in gravel will drop you like a hot potato.

UMMMMM dont ever "grab" your front brake on or off road

If your in loose gravel you can brake as hard as you want with front brake, provided you keep it upright and in a straight line.
The problems occur when its gravel, sand or whatever, ON TOP OF TARMAC or other hard surface when it acts like ball bearings. As for the guy who had a dirbike and still didn't use front brake, you can't go fast if your not using front brake, you should be able to hold a 30 yd front wheel slide. I guess I should mention I rode a 490 Maico for years (mainly because everyone who had heard of them got frightened)
It was a 125mph motocrosser and, mine was also road registered in Britain (MRV 476Y, where are you now?)
PJ

My own view, for what it's worth since it is based on nothing more than my own experience, is that you can use both brakes in almost any situation - the issue is knowing how to use them. Each situation demands its own judgement, and its own way of using the controls (if needed).

I've feathered the front brake (and the back, in combination) on many occasions to kill a little speed when leaned over on all sorts of surfaces and survived each time, shiny-side-up and without any heart-stopping moments. Sometimes I've even used it quite strongly (but gently and slowly) judging how the bike might react and factoring that into the situation.

I've only come off a bike once as a result of using the front brake and that was because I'd completely misjudged the surface. I'd hit a thin scattering of loose cement on a moderate curve (not really a corner). But the road was the same colour as the cement and I didn't see it. If I had known it was there I would have braked very differently - or maybe not needed to brake at all. Who knows?

It seems to me that the 'rule' about not using the front brake when leaned over or on gravel is like most things in biking - it's a 'rule of thumb.' It's not an absolute truth, but a reminder that you have to treat your brakes with caution, skill and experience in certain situations.

Once you have mastered the basic skills I think you need to abandon the 'rules' (rationally) and try a little careful experimentation, because the experience will give a much greater range of choices when faced with a difficult situation. You never stop learning, but only if you don't stop asking questions.

shane-o wrote:I treat it like a wet slippery oily road, go very smooth, not to fast not to slow, and nice purposeful smooth inputs nothing sharp or hard, and hang on and hope ya dont lose the front wheel

Even covered in honey?

Johnj wrote:
Even covered in honey?

I've often wondered how you Kansas boys passed the time out on those long, lonely roads.

UMMMMM dont ever "grab" your front brake on or off road

Quit splitting hairs... you know what I mean...I think that kind of goes without saying doesnt it?...

..although with a long bike like my Vstar... you'd be hard pressed to flip that bike by "grabbing" the front brake.. even with the two front disks.