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Shorts wrote:Hubby rolling on the Duc, 1st gear was req for stop and go traffic. I think some of that was gearing is tall so first was real rough and chattery in low speeds. I would imagine the the CBR has a nice first gear ratio, at least better than what the Duc has.

Yes you are correct. Ducs are notorious for being geared too tall. I am thinking of going one tooth smaller on the front....

However the real culprit is the fuel injection. The Marelli fuel injection mapping is nowhere as precise as the Japanes fuel injection mapping. Surging is the norm at low rpms on most Ducs. Not only that, on a big air cooled twin like the one on the Hyper, they really need to lean it out to meet strict emission standards, making it surge even more. Nothing a DP race ECU wouldn't fix however.....

HYPERR wrote: Nothing a DP race ECU wouldn't fix however.....

I hear that

HYPERR wrote: Oh Ok maybe we are talking about two different things?

In slow traffic, the size of the bike is irrelevant as one would be in 1st or 2nd anyway, regardless of whether it has 20 HP or 200HP.

The 2nd gear analogy is usually used for 600cc sportbikes. In the backroad twisties, usually one keeps 600 sportbikes in 2nd gear or tapdance on the shifter constantly; whereas in a literbike, the low end thrust is so amazing that one can basically be lazy and keep it in 4th gear.

Funny - I've always heard the 2nd gear thang re: liter bikes in traffic, i.e. even at 65 on the highway, you've got no real reason to hit the upper gears on a liter biker (whereas I'm a happy, low-revving duck in 6th at 65 on the 'tona).

But I will freely admit that my seat-time on liter bikes has been limited to the 'You can take my <ZX-14, 1098, R1, Busa, etc> for a spin' variety. I certainly bow to your greater experience on that one.

I do completely agree with you about 600s in the twisties. Even with the 'tonas smoother powerband than the I4s, I do have to dance on the shifter to get max performance.

Funny... after 11 years on 600s, you'd think I'd be looking for a liter bike as my next addition to the stable. But... after watching reruns from the 250cc MotoGP race in Misano,... I want a 250!!

shalihe74 wrote:

HYPERR wrote: Oh Ok maybe we are talking about two different things?

In slow traffic, the size of the bike is irrelevant as one would be in 1st or 2nd anyway, regardless of whether it has 20 HP or 200HP.

The 2nd gear analogy is usually used for 600cc sportbikes. In the backroad twisties, usually one keeps 600 sportbikes in 2nd gear or tapdance on the shifter constantly; whereas in a literbike, the low end thrust is so amazing that one can basically be lazy and keep it in 4th gear.

Funny - I've always heard the 2nd gear thang re: liter bikes in traffic, i.e. even at 65 on the highway, you've got no real reason to hit the upper gears on a liter biker (whereas I'm a happy, low-revving duck in 6th at 65 on the 'tona).

I still think that sounds contradictory, no? I mean no reason to hit the upper gear on a liter bike....?? To me it has so much gobs of power there really is no reason to keep it buzzing in 2nd gear....unless one is a total power junkie. The thrust of a literbike in 2nd gear at 65 mph can only be described as violent. Cruising at 65, I would most definitely have any bike in 5th or 6th.

shalihe74 wrote: Funny... after 11 years on 600s, you'd think I'd be looking for a liter bike as my next addition to the stable. But... after watching reruns from the 250cc MotoGP race in Misano,... I want a 250!!

I think today's 600s are amazing bikes. I of course have the occasional desire for the incredible power of a GSXR1000, but in the end, for me the 600 is perfect.

BTW, the Daytona isn't a 600, it's a ringer.....

I always liked the sound of a triple. Especially the Triumphs. They sound so awesome. I had a '95 BMW K75. It had the nice triple sound but sounded kinda whimpy compared to the Triumph Triple.

HYPERR wrote: I still think that sounds contradictory, no? I mean no reason to hit the upper gear on a liter bike....?? To me it has so much gobs of power there really is no reason to keep it buzzing in 2nd gear....unless one is a total power junkie. The thrust of a literbike in 2nd gear at 65 mph can only be described as violent. Cruising at 65, I would most definitely have any bike in 5th or 6th.

Again, my liter experience is limited (although now I'm going to have to talk a friend into letting me take their bike for some experimentation). But... it doesn't seem totally contradictory. From the 600cc point of view, at 65 I can (comfortably) from 3rd on up. Which gear I pick depends on my acceleration needs: if I want maximum power delivery, I'll run in 4th; if I'm just cruising a long, I want to maximize efficiency, so I'll run in 6th.

Which I guess makes your point that, if a liter has relatively uniform delivery across the entire powerband regardless of gear, it doesn't matter whether you're in 3rd or 6th - you'll still have juice if you need to goose it. On the 'tona, though, accelerating from 65 in 6th is a little weak since there is a 4k gap between revs at that speed (5500) and the top of the powerband.

I think today's 600s are amazing bikes. I of course have the occasional desire for the incredible power of a GSXR1000, but in the end, for me the 600 is perfect.

BTW, the Daytona isn't a 600, it's a ringer.....

I agree. I've yet to ride a 600 to the limit, so I really don't feel the need for a liter. I can get into more than enough trouble as is!

And the 'tona is closer to a 600 than it is to a 1k...

I always liked the sound of a triple. Especially the Triumphs. They sound so awesome. I had a '95 BMW K75. It had the nice triple sound but sounded kinda whimpy compared to the Triumph Triple.

Again, I gotta agree. Particularly the older triples. The new ones are sweet, no doubt, but... when I rode the 96 Trophy a couple days ago... oh my god. It DID sound like a diesel, but the sexiest diesel on the planet.

zulu warrior wrote:
For me, acceleration is a bigger deal for me. I don't need to go 100mph. Too old for that (38yrs)

Zulu - (speaking as a 56 year old) you do realise that riding a litre sportsbike will change all that very quickly!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

A machine that cruises gently at 120mph will soon have you looking down at the speedo and going, 'whooops'.

If it's just acceleration you want, not speed, why buy a bike with RR in its name?

shalihe74 wrote:
Again, I gotta agree. Particularly the older triples. The new ones are sweet, no doubt, but... when I rode the 96 Trophy a couple days ago... oh my god. It DID sound like a diesel, but the sexiest diesel on the planet.

Remember the Thunderbirds and the Adventurers of the 1990s? They sounded totally awesome with a full exhaust. A mean sounding triple sounds like nothing else.

The 1990s T-Birds are one of those bikes that I always lusted after but never got around to buying one. The Adventurer with the ape hangers never did it for me.

sv-wolf wrote:

zulu warrior wrote:
For me, acceleration is a bigger deal for me. I don't need to go 100mph. Too old for that (38yrs)

Zulu - (speaking as a 56 year old) you do realise that riding a litre sportsbike will change all that very quickly!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

A machine that cruises gently at 120mph will soon have you looking down at the speedo and going, 'whooops'.

If it's just acceleration you want, not speed, why buy a bike with RR in its name?

Yes I figure that, but I needed to confirm it and that's why I come you folks. :>

One thing to take into consideration is what will you be using the bike for? Work? commute? twisties? track? or a combination of the above. I have an 2k8 cbr 1000 and love it. Is it to powerful for the street? Yes, when I ride the twisties I'm never higher than 2nd gear but I plan on tracking that beast a lot this coming year so I can at least sample some of its crazy top end power. I mean the thing is as light as some 600's. There's nothing wrong with any of the choices you've put up. Just remember the higher cc you go up the worse trouble you're going to get into. No one will be able to tell you what to get because its only you that will eventually decide what you want. Although everyone is giving you good advice. The most important thing is with whatever bike you get ride responsibly.

Go sit on the bike again and imagine sitting like that, maybe with a backpack if that's what you do, for an hour or two in traffic. I don't care if you squeeze the tank with your legs, have crazy abs or rest on your arms- chances are somewhere a muscle will start to get sore.

Another thing to consider is that a 1000 doesn't get the best gas mileage (yep I went there). If you plan to commute on it, that eventually comes into play.

If this is just a fun bike, buy whatever you want and can reasonably afford.