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japac1 wrote: I ride a Virago 250. It's my first bike. I am still in the practice phase. I enjoyed everyone's response to the OP question. I have been concentrating on slipping the clutch slowly and feathering a little rear brake in these turns, but I still have 2 problems:
1. The gear ratios are small on this bike. When I start out from a red light and want to turn either direction, but this situation is worse with right turns, as I am starting out and beginning my lean, as I let out more clutch and give more throttle to make the turn and attempt to speed up, the bike really wants to be in 2nd gear. Once I even shifted mid-turn, mid-lean and I thought that was stupid at my level of experience. What should I do? I know once I get a larger bike, this should resolve.!

Its okay to upshift in your turn.

japac1 wrote:2. As I am driving down the street in 5 th gear and want to turn, let's say, onto my street, I start braking and downshifting prior to the turn. But, almost always I can't tell what gear I clicked down into and often let out the clutch to find I am in 1st, over-revving. What are the tricks to help negotiate these turns? I know I should be off the brakes and clutch prior to initiating the turn. Is it acceptable to be in the friction zone with a little rear brake during these turns, then after the turn let out clutch all the way and take off. Seems like this is not the best idea...

I rarely downshift more than ONE gear, before making a turn. . . unless I was going quickly, and maybe taking an off ramp.

Try just counting "one" "two" as you downshift, downshift. It doesn't really matter which gear you were in before you began slowing, only that you're downshifting a gear or two... Keep practicing, it will come together. What you're learning now, may be easier on a different bike, but why wait to learn?

P

japac1 wrote:I ride a Virago 250. It's my first bike. I am still in the practice phase. I enjoyed everyone's response to the OP question. I have been concentrating on slipping the clutch slowly and feathering a little rear brake in these turns, but I still have 2 problems:
1. The gear ratios are small on this bike. When I start out from a red light and want to turn either direction, but this situation is worse with right turns, as I am starting out and beginning my lean, as I let out more clutch and give more throttle to make the turn and attempt to speed up, the bike really wants to be in 2nd gear. Once I even shifted mid-turn, mid-lean and I thought that was stupid at my level of experience. What should I do? I know once I get a larger bike, this should resolve.

2. As I am driving down the street in 5 th gear and want to turn, let's say, onto my street, I start braking and downshifting prior to the turn. But, almost always I can't tell what gear I clicked down into and often let out the clutch to find I am in 1st, over-revving. What are the tricks to help negotiate these turns? I know I should be off the brakes and clutch prior to initiating the turn. Is it acceptable to be in the friction zone with a little rear brake during these turns, then after the turn let out clutch all the way and take off. Seems like this is not the best idea.

Sorry this is so long!!

Doesnt matter what gear your in so long as its the right one



.

It's different for different bikes, which is why it is nice to get to know your own. Keep practicing & thinking & following the advice already given, and it'll come with time.

I have a long, gravel driveway that goes uphill and ends right at a busy road where the speed limit is 55 miles an hour. I sat at the top of the driveway today and finally got the nerve to go into the street but I needed to make a sharp left turn and go. I couldn't make myself do it for a while and when I did, my turn was so awkward I ended up walking the bike and thanking God that no one was coming. I finally got it going down the road but was so shook up, I just went back to practicing in the field behind our house. I think I need lots of parking lot practice! Thanks for the tips.

Gina wrote:I have a long, gravel driveway that goes uphill and ends right at a busy road where the speed limit is 55 miles an hour. I sat at the top of the driveway today and finally got the nerve to go into the street but I needed to make a sharp left turn and go. I couldn't make myself do it for a while and when I did, my turn was so awkward I ended up walking the bike and thanking God that no one was coming. I finally got it going down the road but was so shook up, I just went back to practicing in the field behind our house. I think I need lots of parking lot practice! Thanks for the tips.

First, don't get discouraged, we all started there. Concerning your turn, I bet the longer you sat there, the more physically tense you got - maybe without even realizing it. Without the experience to sense and release the tension, your turn was awkward - possibly shoulders and elbows locked, etc. Now, parking lot practice is good and beneficial. And the next time you're at the top of the driveway, traffic permitting, don't hesitate: fix your eyes where you want to go, relax, and GO. Waiting ain't gonna help.

"Waiting ain't gonna help"... couldn't be more true! But practicing off the street might be a good idea for anyone that struggles with this. You shouldn't have to think about it before entering traffic!

Use your clutch, and don't be afraid of cooking it either, replacing it ain't a big deal.

In the MSF course, they teach you to hold the throttle steady and use the clutch to regulate your speed. Get familiar with the friction zone and use it.

Stopping early enough so that you can start off straight, and then turn, is good advice too. It's easier that way, at first.

The next thing to get familiar with, IMHO, is accelerating thru the turn. It's hard to describe but, if the bike turns in too much, more gas will help..

If it feels like it's going wide, back off the gas a little, and lean it in more. Get back on the gas as soon as you recover your line... Most people don't trust the traction as much as they should, and I've heard that going wide is the most common (deadly) "single vehicle accident" for bikes.

It's a tricky call though. Going off into the grass is better than laying it down lowside, and going lowside is supposed to be better than going highside (usually), but sometimes the bike could've just made the turn in the first place...

A guard rail, or cliff, changes the whole scenario.. You don't want to go low side if there's a guard rail!

I guess it comes down to knowing (and trusting) your tires. Most beginners don't trust them enough....

I hope I don't regret writing this...
Always ride a little slower than "the best of your ability", that way you have room for emergency moves...
but if keeping up with traffic is scary, maybe it's better to practice some more in a parking lot..??

jimguitars wrote:Use your clutch, and don't be afraid of cooking it either, replacing it ain't a big deal.

Just a quick note on this, most motorcycles have a wet clutch unlike most cars. It is designed to take a hammering from riding the clutch unlike a car. It takes a lot of effort to kill a motorcycle clutch.



That's the clutch from my Superdream...



...and thats the clutch removed. As Jim says a low effort, no big deal job in itself that can be done with the engine in the frame.

Get familiar with the friction zone and use it.

Couldn't agree more, slow speed control is vital

jimguitars wrote:The next thing to get familiar with, IMHO, is accelerating thru the turn. It's hard to describe but, if the bike turns in too much, more gas will help..

If it feels like it's going wide, back off the gas a little, and lean it in more. Get back on the gas as soon as you recover your line... Most people don't trust the traction as much as they should, and I've heard that going wide is the most common (deadly) "single vehicle accident" for bikes.

Going to disagree with you here. In my experience power makes the bike turn in quicker and rolling off the power sends it wide.

jimguitars wrote:I guess it comes down to knowing (and trusting) your tires. Most beginners don't trust them enough....

I hope I don't regret writing this...
Always ride a little slower than "the best of your ability", that way you have room for emergency moves...
but if keeping up with traffic is scary, maybe it's better to practice some more in a parking lot..??

Again, a number of damned good points that cannot be reiterated enough.

"In my experience power makes the bike turn in quicker and rolling off the power sends it wide."

I'm having trouble understanding that Kal..? More gas will take you out of the turn, the bike will try to straighten out unless you lean on it more.

Maybe it's a misunderstanding, but I meant backing off the gas "a little" in order to tighten up a turn... especially at low speeds.

japac1 wrote:2. As I am driving down the street in 5 th gear and want to turn, let's say, onto my street, I start braking and downshifting prior to the turn. But, almost always I can't tell what gear I clicked down into and often let out the clutch to find I am in 1st, over-revving.

I don't know about most riders, but when I gear down to make a turn, I go one gear at a time. Pull in clutch, shift, release clutch, let the motor help my brakes in slowing me down, repeat as necessary until I'm: a) doing the speed I want to be at to make the corner. b) In the gear I want to be in as well.

jimguitars wrote:I'm having trouble understanding that Kal..? More gas will take you out of the turn, the bike will try to straighten out unless you lean on it more.

Maybe it's a misunderstanding, but I meant backing off the gas "a little" in order to tighten up a turn... especially at low speeds.

Tis a physics thing, we had a phd explain it on here a couple of years ago, but I only got one word in four - mostly 'the', 'a', 'and' etc.

If I understand it correctly both accelerating and trail braking in the turn tightens the bikes frame

If the bike is in the turn then the rear wheel pushes to the outside of the turn. Effectively meaning that the rear wheel is travelling faster than the front. Because there is no where else for the force to go the rear comes out to attempt an overtake on the front. In turn this pushes the front end tighter into the corner. In effect it increases its own lean angle.

Rolling off of the throttle unloads the suspension and decreases the effective handling of the bike. Because there is less force pushing the rear to the outside and the front to the inside of the turn the bike will run wide.

At least that is my understanding. :blink blink: