Screw the NYC MSF course!!!

[Kal]

This is a real, real bad idea...

You're right there is pressure here to get a senisble first bike, good gear and training. In my case its because a lot of us have lost friends.

Last September was a bad time here. Dave got wiped out by a car coming round a bend on his side of the road, iirc Spud was waiting to turn right and got wiped out by car, a work colleague logged out at 6 in the morning got on his bike and had to swerve to avoid a car that didnt see him - he tumbled from the bike at less than 30 mph and broke his neck.

It was a bad three weeks. All three were experienced riders.

Motorcycling is inheriently dangerous and the odds are always stacked in favour of the house. I do everything I can to reduce the odds of something bad happening.

That said I am sure that you've already decided that this is the way you are going to play it so please gear up everytime you go out and be lucky.

It is possible to beat the odds, just not likely.


On the training. A licence costs £19.00, theCBT to ride a 125 £90 and training for an unrestricted licence £300-£400

So getting a full licence in the UK will set you back about £310-£509 ($554.55-$884.85US)

[CajunBass]

I'm another one who had not completed a MSF course. I took the classroom part, and the first days instruction. I came down with chest pains the last day and went to the ER. Nothing was found to be wrong, and I realize now that my chest pains were caused by nothing more than the stress of knowing that I wasn't really prepared to pass the test. I was pushing myself way too hard.

I went home and practiced, practiced, practiced and yesterday passed my skills test that is required by the DMV to get my "M" endorsement on my drivers license. )By the way. The instructors at the MSF said during the class that the DMV test was harder than the one they give for what that's worth and the passing score is higher.)

I will probably go back and take the course again. I wasn't impressed with it the first time but I don't guess I impressed them too much either.

I do know one thing. It took me another month of practicing in the parking lot at church before I felt confident enough to go to DMV to even try the test. I failed it the first time, mostly due to nerves and not really knowing exactly how DMV ran the test. After another week of practice around and around those cones, I was able to pass with a "just passing" score.

This is NOT easy. I know the learning has just really started. All I've proven is that I can operate my bike at the minimum skill level required to be able to say I can do it. I plan to continue to learn every day I'm on the road. I read everything I can find. And I take baby steps.

[mattwells]

Vit0r-

Good will, and God speed. The MSF is not a requirement, just a smart thing to do. When you have your first accident, you will understand. Of course, that is assuming you aren't dead. I can't believe you are plopping down a bunch of money for a bike, but are complaining about the cost of the course. Going by percentages, the course is costing my 50% of my bike's cost. I consider it well worth it. Buy a cheaper bike, and pay for the course is the easiest solution to the problem. You will probably live longer that way. Of course, you aren't going to listen to what I say, or what the overwhelming majority of people tell you, so have fun. Die young. Hope someone can bury you.

[Vit0r]

Vit0r-

Good will, and God speed. The MSF is not a requirement, just a smart thing to do. When you have your first accident, you will understand. Of course, that is assuming you aren't dead. I can't believe you are plopping down a bunch of money for a bike, but are complaining about the cost of the course. Going by percentages, the course is costing my 50% of my bike's cost. I consider it well worth it. Buy a cheaper bike, and pay for the course is the easiest solution to the problem. You will probably live longer that way. Of course, you aren't going to listen to what I say, or what the overwhelming majority of people tell you, so have fun. Die young. Hope someone can bury you.

Thanks for the kind words (..I think) but I'm sorry, I just don't buy into the MSF. I can honestly say that I think I'll be fine without it. I think the course caters to those who need some sense of reassurance and who are totally green that sitting on a bike feels like being inside an F-14 cockpit. If I'm riding down the road and a drunk oncoming car jumps into my lane from a blind turn it doesn't matter whether I took the MSF course or not, it's going to hurt. Honestly, at this stage the only thing I'm worried about is not having the boots and "armored" gloves. Jacket is good, helmet is good, I feel confident enough in my abilities.

P.S. Sorry about your friends Kal.

[mattwells]

Vit0r-

I read elsewhere that you are 18. I thought 19 when I read your posts that did not show age, but I was close enough.

How much time have you spent on a motorcycle in traffic? How about at highway speeds? In NY, how much time have you spent in heavy traffic?
You don't buy into the MSF because you are, for lack of a better word, arrogant. Everyone was at that age (I am only 22, it was not that long ago for me). The MSF is not for people who are 'totally green', it is for everyone. My friend just got done with it and there was a guy in there who was 70, and had taken it every year for the past 15 years. Not because he was green (he had been riding since the 60's), but because having a reminder on how to stay safe is a good idea.

You are right, you can't plan for everything, but you can plan for a lot. When the drunk swerves in front of you, were you able to think of and react appropriately for every possible avenue of escape? The MSF and books like Proficient Motorcycling help you to 'see' better. But again, nothing we say will change your mind. I wish you the best, this will be my last post to you, so have fun. I hope you make it to my age with your fast sportbike and lack of experience.

[flynrider]

I didn't take the MSF course because they didn't have it back then. While "teaching" myself to ride, I learned many of the lessons taught in the MSF course the hard way. This involved bent metal, road rash and a few hospital visits. Overall, I was pretty lucky, but it was a very expensive way to learn. Most of my riding buddies at the time had the same experience. Most survived the learning process, a few didn't, but nobody got through it unscratched.

Think about it. If you're not a skilled experienced rider, then by teaching yourself, you have a pretty ignorant instructor (I know I did). How do you know what to do, or not to do, without trying it out yourself for the first time. This is where metal gets bent and plastic gets broken. There's a lot about riding motorcycles that is not intuitive.

Sure, you can skip the class and still live, but I'm pretty sure you'll learn some lessons about motorcycling the hard way.

Best of luck to you!

[Relsek]

No offense, but you're sounding more and more like an accident about to happen.

I bet a good 50% or more of the people on here didn't even take the MSF course and just stay quiet while everyone else bombards new members to take it, take it, take it.

I would be one of those.

[Qbushido]

as a fellow NYer, I say man up, take the course, a few hundred bucks is nothing in the grand scheme of things. if you learn ONE thing from the exp it will be worth it.

Yes its more expensive here, but EVERYTHING is more expensive here.

[ronboskz650sr]

Vit0r, Just remember...it's a machine. It will do what you tell it to do...every time. If what you're telling it to do isn't intuitive to you, AND the machine... the machine does what it does according to your inputs.... every time. If your inputs are based on what seems right...for example turn the bars right to make a right turn at 20 mph...most bikes will surprize you with a left turn. That would be a mild example.

Until you figure out what inputs are required for a wide variety of situations, including traffic, your bike will surprize you again and again. So...read every book you can get your hands on. Practice in low stress parking lot type environments. Start slowly and work your way up. Buy training videos, and be prepared to damage your own bike if you make certain errors.

Yes, most of this sounds just like going to the MSF (except for damaging your own bike)...doesn't it? But, you aren't going, are you? So do these other things, please, and drop the attitude, for your own good. Nobody here can really help you while you have the attitude, but it would be nice to hear from you over and over again with honest, humble questions we CAN answer, to help you learn.

I didn't take the MSF...neither did my son. I am a former Air force flight instructor, and flight examiner, though...and I know how to teach machines to people. Unfortunately, you are presently untrainable, because of the attitude. When you lose it, I'm happy to help in any way I can.

[Sev]

Ronbo sounds harsh, but I'm inclined to agree. Like I said before you're sounding more and more like an accident about to happen.

I feel sorry for your bike.