Total Motorcycle Community Forums

Mikeydude wrote:Could it be possible that one is actually countersteering without even realizing it? I've read that it's actually a natural movement when "leaning" into a turn... just really hard to explain.

Countersteering is artificially inducing a lean by changing the direction of the tire. You can also turn by shifting your weight to the side of the bike you want to turn to. Or pressing down on the peg you want to turn to.

I think that what happens for the people who weren't taught, or didn't know how to do it they tried one thing, actually turning, then realized that it wasn't working subconciously, and tried the opposite, combined with a lot of leaning.

I've found that really focusing on counter steering greatly improves your turning ability. Knowing that it works means you can focus on doing it correctly.

Just get going and lean for a turn.. You'll notice that having the wheel going the same way you are isn't going to happen. Either the wheel will stop you leaning, or you're going to let the wheel go the other way so you can complete your turn.

until now, i thought counter steering was counter balancing...say you're turning left, you put yor weight on the right peg o keep the bike from falling.....i don't know why, but i always thought that's what cs was.....check out these pics:







i've been through some pretty sharp turns at very fast speeds but although and i have NEVER used counter steering. however, this satement i got from ridemyown.com might prove me wrong:

In a nut shell, counter steering is simply pushing the handle bars right or left in order to steer the motorcycle. Most riders do this subconsciously. At higher speeds you don't even realize you are doing it, but you must be or you would never get to where you are going without a serious crash. At low speeds, it does become a conscience effort. A friend of mine who recently purchased a Kawasaki Nomad and obtained his learners permit, asked me to help him pass the motorcycle drivers test.

also, check out:

http://www.motorcyclecounterstreeing.com/

OR

http://www.mc-steering.com/

*both websites are the same, posted both incase one goes down...you never know*

At speeds from 20 mph / 33 kph it is impossible to turn a bike round a bend without using counter-steering.

Could it be possible that one is actually countersteering without even realizing it? I've read that it's actually a natural movement when "leaning" into a turn... just really hard to explain.

I'd been wondering the same thing... I've been reading pretty much anything I can get my hands on while scrounging up the $$$ for a bike, gear and courses and of course eventually came across this whole counter steering concept.

While the physics make sense, it still sounded really weird. I figured countersteering should also apply to a bicycle going at a good clip, but don't recall EVER doing this. I had to go test it out to prove it once and for all, and sure enough it's exactly what I've been doing all along. In fact I'd been aware of it on some subconscious level, because the change in handling is precisely WHY I've always liked taking corners at a good speed.

Now I just have to hope that that carries over once I get on a motorcycle

I have recently come up with an explaination that works well in my mind. Suppose there's a motorcycle going in a straight line at, oh, 50 MPH. Now, if the rider turns the handlebars counter-clockwise, if you are a bird looking down at the bike. What this does is points the tire to the rider's left, causing the bottom of the bike to start going to the rider's left. However, the top of the bike resists this, trying to stay going the same direction. This causes the top of the bike to "fall" away from where the front tire is pointing, thus making the bike lean.

Clear as mud!

shadezilla wrote: While the physics make sense, it still sounded really weird. I figured countersteering should also apply to a bicycle going at a good clip, but don't recall EVER doing this. I had to go test it out to prove it once and for all, and sure enough it's exactly what I've been doing all along. In fact I'd been aware of it on some subconscious level, because the change in handling is precisely WHY I've always liked taking corners at a good speed.

Now I just have to hope that that carries over once I get on a motorcycle

Exactly. Everyone does it, they just don't realize it. And don't worry, this skill WILL carry over to the motorcycle

Countersteering works even at slow speeds. This is where physics comes into play - The law of INERTIA (Or Newton's First Law) states - A body continues in a state of rest or uniform motion in a straight line unless, it is acted upon by external forces.

The FASTER a bike is going, the more INERTIA it has ... In other words, the more the bike wants to just stay travelling in a straight line. At high speeds you need a bunch of combined forces to make the bike change direction. (There is a really great comment in the movie FASTER - one of the riders says it's very difficult to make a motoGP bike change direction at 180mph because they want to keep going in a straight line)

Hm ... SKIER's comment makes alot of sense ... maybe I should just leave it at that.

Exactly. Everyone does it, they just don't realize it. And don't worry, this skill WILL carry over to the motorcycle

Glad to hear that I'll have one less thing to have to think too much about while dealing with all the other fun aspects of being a new rider!

Mikeydude wrote:Could it be possible that one is actually countersteering without even realizing it? I've read that it's actually a natural movement when "leaning" into a turn... just really hard to explain.

YES!!! Thats it exactly!!

If you've spent time doing any serious bicycle riding, say on a bike trail or from one place to another, you've likely performed "countersteering" without even realizing it. Most of us have ridden bicycles since we were in grade school or earlier, so we've been countersteering all our lives without ever thinking about it...

"Learning" countersteering at this point in life, as in learning to ride a motorcycle, is like trying to 'learn' to breathe today. . . once you start thinking about the mechanics of what you 'ought' to be doing, it seems to get tough to do well anymore.

Don't overthink the process. . . just do it and trust the physics of the process.

The pics posted are from "Proficient Motorcycling" by David Hough if I'm not mistaken. There's a VERY good explanation of 'why countersteering works' in that book.

P

you do countersteer, even on a bicycle - subconciously. You learn young, on a bike, that not doing so results in a skinned up knee. I'm about to take off for a month of vacation (much needed after a year at war) - but when I get home sometime tomorrow, I will post images and a detailed description of the physics that explain countersteering.

I cant explain the physics of countersteering...my instructor back in my MSF explained it in detail, and when I asked questions, he told me I was already doing it. It does come naturally with practice. Dont think about turning your steering wheel, I think that'll just get you into trouble, Look - Push - Lean.

And counterbalancing is important at low-speeds. You cant do a tight 180 without it, and I'm still practicing that as it is challenging for me to get it to come naturally.