More variety from Harley Davidson

[liablemtl]

ummmmm... I didn't notice anyone mention this point, but both models of HD are in the FXD line. It's just a variation on a theme. It's not necessarily a "completely new bike"... and I dont' think HD is claiming it is. Granted, I haven't looked at their site since I bought my FZ... but why the hate towards the big American motorcompany? If you don't like Harleys...

Then don't buy one.

Many car company's and motorcycle companys do exactly the same thing... it's called rebadging. For instance, I bought a Mercury Montego last summer. It's basically the exact same car as the Ford 500... mine has a few more features that the 500 doesn't have, but it's essentially the same car.

The same thing with the FZ1 and R1. They are essentially the same bike, with a few minor differences.

Do you hate Yamaha for calling them different models???

[Mintbread]

Minor differences? Hmm.

Last time I checked Yamaha had done a little more than change the seat and bars to differentiate between an R1 and an FZ.

Some of the minor differences:

Wheels
Tyres
Brakes
Forks
Bars
Swingarm
Rear Shock
Exhaust
Seat
Subframe
Frame
Tank
Dials
Fairings
Pegs
Not to mention the engine...

[scan]

Minor differences? Hmm.

Last time I checked Yamaha had done a little more than change the seat and bars to differentiate between an R1 and an FZ.

Some of the minor differences:

Wheels
Tyres
Brakes
Forks
Bars
Swingarm
Rear Shock
Exhaust
Seat
Subframe
Frame
Tank
Dials
Fairings
Pegs
Not to mention the engine...

Agreed, it is apples and oranges as far as what I read in reviews.

And as far as I can tell there are like three, maybe four major Harley models. Everything else seems to be trim and accesories.

[High_Side]

What's up with all this "point proving"? Damn.

It's like the Ducati review I read today - But in the end, not my cup of tea.

mmmmmmmm......expresso

[ZooTech]

I'm waiting to see how you twist this response around!

No need for any twisting, Gummi. Once again you turn the focus on me rather than on the discussion. You called my bike a "cookie cutter bike", I answered with what sets it apart from everything else, and you call that "chest thumping". If your bike works for you, that's great. After all, you're right...all that matters is that you like it. Problem is, nobody seems to be able to say they don't like Harleys without being accused of jealousy or of secretly saving pennies so they can one day buy one. In response to that, I like to point out Harley's design "strategy" which involves the use of half a dozen frames, four engines, and a parts bin of body parts. That kind of inventory system typically drives the cost DOWN on a given product, yet Harleys are priced higher than most competing motorcycles. Harleys are not imported, they don't use any exotic materials (most of their engines are unchromed), and they are air-cooled meaning there is no R&D or cost involved with a water-cooling system. If that's not proof that a Harley badge costs $8000.00, then I don't know what is.

ummmmm... I didn't notice anyone mention this point, but both models of HD are in the FXD line. It's just a variation on a theme. It's not necessarily a "completely new bike"

And my Mean Streak is part of the Vulcan line, yet very few parts will fit on a Nomad or Classic. Even the top-end of the engine is different (different cams, valves, and throttle bodies). None of the body parts are swappable, and neither are the wheels. Yet desite the necessity to carry all those different parts (plus R&D and manufacturing), Vulcans cost roughly 66% as much as the Harleys they compete with.

[Gummiente]

Once again you turn the focus on me rather than on the discussion.

That's because I know how much you enjoy being the center of attention.

You called my bike a "cookie cutter bike", I answered with what sets it apart from everything else, and you call that "chest thumping".

There we go, there's the twisting. Awww... did I hurt your feelings by calling it a "cookie cutter"?

Problem is, nobody seems to be able to say they don't like Harleys without being accused of jealousy or of secretly saving pennies so they can one day buy one.

Not everybody, just people like you.

I like to point out Harley's design "strategy" which involves the use of half a dozen frames, four engines, and a parts bin of body parts.

Which brings us to the point. Who cares? In the grand scheme of things, what possible value does a point like this have? Why do you need to make a big fuss by posting pics and devoting a thread to it? What possible motive could there be? You don't own one, you don't like one (or so you repeatedly claim), but you continue to pick at them every chance you get with increasingly trivial points. My guess is that you either felt the need to focus attention on yourself again or way deep down inside you secretly desire to own one. C'mon, 'fess up now!

yet Harleys are priced higher than most competing motorcycles.

And they continue to sell every single one they make, while competing brands languish on showroom floors. Hmmm...

[ZooTech]

Which brings us to the point. Who cares? In the grand scheme of things, what possible value does a point like this have?

It's called an observation. I read pretty much every motorcycle-related article I get my hands on. Motorcycle USA had this to say about the Street Bob and Super Glide, respectively:

"The Street Bob pays homage to the classic bobber style, with a low ape-hanger handlebar, a solo seat, and mid-mount foot controls."

"The '70s-influenced 35th-anniversary Super Glide is another Dyna family addition. It will be limited to a 3500 unit serialized production."

In the absense of pictures, one could imagine two completely different-looking bikes with a distinct style all their own. Yet what do we see along with the article but pics of a couple of bikes that are virtually identical save for two easily changed parts and a paint job.

That's all the thread was about, Gummi. Hooray for me, I'm the center of attention again.

[liablemtl]

Minor differences? Hmm.

Last time I checked Yamaha had done a little more than change the seat and bars to differentiate between an R1 and an FZ.

Some of the minor differences:

Wheels
Tyres
Brakes
Forks
Bars
Swingarm
Rear Shock
Exhaust
Seat
Subframe
Frame
Tank
Dials
Fairings
Pegs
Not to mention the engine...

Ok... ok...

Bad example. I know.

But really... it's like the difference between the Pontiac Vibe and the Toyota Matrix, or the Ford 500 and the Mercury Montego, or the V45 Magna and the V45 Sabre (I know... different riding styles, yada yada yaday... but pretty much the same bike)

it sounds like you're just bitter about HD's. If you don't like 'em... don't buy 'em. That's all.

[Gummiente]

it sounds like you're just bitter about HD's. If you don't like 'em... don't buy 'em. That's all.

Too true! But that simple logic seems to be beyond the grasp of a lot of people.

[DivideOverflow]

Fact of the matter is they charge that much because they can get away with it. Everyone knows they are overpriced, and we all know better than to think it is because they are the best.

It boils down to choice. For example, why would someone spend 5 grand on a Royal Enfield compared to more modern bikes around the same price range.. because they like the style. Why do people pay $7500 for a Triumph Bonneville? Because they like it.

As for the changing the bars and the seat and calling them new bikes... it beats me. But I am willing to bet if you went to buy those parts from Harley, it would probably be about the same cost as a new bike.

I work with a lady that has a Harley, and it cost more for her to get a sissy bar put on then I paid for my entire bike.