Total Motorcycle Community Forums

beginner wrote:

is because when you do it, you're moving your weight at least partially with your hands and arms. That causes you to press on the steering bar (steering bar is beginner's term for handlebar, kind of like the steering leashes used on a horse) on the opposite side. That is what is actually effecting the steering input.

What you are describing is shifting body weight to one side by pushing down on the steering bar. Another way is pushing on a peg. Then there's griping the tank and leaning from your midsecion. There's also moving your bottom to one side of the saddle. It's all the same thing, shifting upper body weight to one side so the bike will lean the opposite way.

To any new rider reading this thread:

The quoted posters thoughts on shifting body weight do not equate to the reality of riding a motorcycle. Perhaps he is just confused, but let me clarify.
If you lean (shift your body weight) to the left, your bike will lean left. As a natural part of this, you will also press on the left handlebar and help to initiate that lean.
If you are needing the lean angle to be less due to slow speed (figure 8 box for the MSF) or hight speed tight turns (advanced technique) then you will want to "Counter Balance" by moving your tush to the opposite side of the seat. This will change your center of balance and reduce the lean angle.
Again, shifting your body weight to one side does not make the bike lean the other way. Please think of leaning/countersteering as a fluid interlocked movement and think of counterbalancing as moving your ARSE.

beginner wrote: Ride 5-7 mph on a straight path. Shift your upper body noticeably to the right until the bike leans noticeably to the left. To keep a straight path you have to push forward on the left grip to "counter steer" the front wheel to the right, the same direction your body is leaning. At that point your upper body will be "counter balanced" to the right, the front wheel will be 'counter steered" to the right, the bike will be leaning to the left, and on a straight path.

New Riders: This is an excellent example of misinterpeting inputs. In the above situation, as you shift your weight to the right you PUSH on the LEFT hand grip, giving a COUNTERSTEER input to the motorcycle. As the front tire deflects to the RIGHT the motorcycle leans LEFT. (If you're coming from dirt bikes, you'll realize you're probably PULLING on the right at the same time, which has the same result--a right countersteer, leaning the bike left).

Becareful when you are playing with body position because you'll use the handlebars as a LEVER without realizing you're doing it!

beginner wrote:

CaptCrashIdaho wrote:

beginner wrote:Experiment. Go straight at about 5-7 mph. Shift body weight noticeably to the right until the bike leans noticeably to the left but keep the path straight. To do that you'll have to turn the front wheel noticeably to the right. Then you'll be simultaneously "counter balancing" and "counter steering" to the right but going straight.

New Riders: This is an excellent example of misinterpeting inputs. In the above situation, as you shift your weight to the right you PUSH on the LEFT hand grip, giving a COUNTERSTEER input to the motorcycle. As the front tire deflects to the RIGHT the motorcycle leans LEFT. (If you're coming from dirt bikes, you'll realize you're probably PULLING on the right at the same time, which has the same result--a right countersteer, leaning the bike left).

It's called an experiement because it's repeatable. You can go try it for yourself and see what happens. Perhaps if I restate it you'll get what I'm talking about.

Ride 5-7 mph on a straight path. Shift your upper body noticeably to the right until the bike leans noticeably to the left. To keep a straight path you have to push forward on the left grip to "counter steer" the front wheel to the right, the same direction your body is leaning. At that point your upper body will be "counter balanced" to the right, the front wheel will be 'counter steered" to the right, the bike will be leaning to the left, and on a straight path.

You discovered, with your 'experiment' something that's taught in the second exercise of the second day of the BRC.

The exercise is called 'Pressing to Initiate Lean.'

What you're actually doing is pressing on the handlebars to shift your upper body. You're misinterpreting the motorcycles response to your direct control inputs through the handlebars as your upper body causing the motorcycle to lean.

Stop for a minute and try to realize that you're 'discovering' things that many of us have known and done for decades. Or, think about this - how much more do you think you'll be able to 'discover' in 30+ years of riding all types of motorcycles on all types of terrain in all types of weather. Some of us attempting to give you advice are already there...

:::
Stop for a minute and try to realize that you're 'discovering' things that many of us have known and done for decades. Or, think about this - how much more do you think you'll be able to 'discover' in 30+ years of riding all types of motorcycles on all types of terrain in all types of weather. Some of us attempting to give you advice are already there...
:::

Heck LDS...

There's nothing like a bit of motorcycling negationism or perhaps self-centered learning at play here.

ofblong wrote:how come its not closed yet?

Works proxy servers play merry hell with my mod tools, you guys have ~2 hours to post as much as you can, till I get home

Nibblet99 wrote:

ofblong wrote:how come its not closed yet?

Works proxy servers play merry hell with my mod tools, you guys have ~2 hours to post as much as you can, till I get home

Wow... that almost seems like a challenge!!! HAHAHA

Counter-balancing is a great skill that assists in completing turns at slow speeds. It does not initiate or do the turning for you, however. Yes it is used to affect lean angle - it is used to reduce lean angle.

The reason you want to reduce lean angle at slow speeds is because you do not have the forward momentum to keep the bike upright for leaning to turn (or as upright as you'd like) during slow speeds. To keep the bike upright, you shift your butt to the outside of the turn. This keeps the motorcycle from tipping over into the turn that you are initiating via the handlebars.

If you are turning via counter-balancing, you are either pushing on the handlebars without realizing it, or you're pushing down on the inside footpeg when you move. At slow speeds, yes those things will have an effect on the direction a bike will take. So will hopping up and down on the footpegs, and a number of other things that you shouldn't be using to try and turn the bike.

Use the handlebars for turning the bike. Use your body appropriately to enhance the controls.

LDS wrote: you're 'discovering' things that many of us have known and done for decades.

Where did you learn it?

how much more do you think you'll be able to 'discover' in 30+ years of riding all types of motorcycles on all types of terrain in all types of weather.

I discovered quite a bit last season and expect to discover quite a bit more next season. Learning is what I enjoy most about the bike. It's better to share opinions. There doesn't need to be advice.

Nalian wrote:Counter-balancing is a great skill that assists in completing turns at slow speeds. It does not initiate or do the turning for you, however.

I use counter balancing to lean the bike so I can turn it.

Yes it is used to affect lean angle - it is used to reduce lean angle.

It can also be used to increase lean angle, as in this video, which was made a couple weeks after I started counter balancing effectively. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z5b3-Gk0 ... annel_page

beginner wrote:Where did you learn it?

Which 'it?'

I discovered quite a bit last season and expect to discover quite a bit more next season. Learning is what I enjoy most about the bike. It's better to share opinions. There doesn't need to be advice.

OK. The opinion of most people is that by not taking advice you're not only severely limiting your ability to learn, but that you're also putting yourself at risk.

I take it that instead of advice that can prevent you from injuring yourself, you'd rather wait and get opinions on how badly we think you hurt?