Total Motorcycle Community Forums

Venarius wrote:
Harley would be forced to actually go back to the drawing board and come up with a viable design that can compete with the cheaper better technology Import bikes.

I've never owned a Harley so take this as you may, but based on what I've read and heard.

Hasn't Harley in he last few years improved their bikes a whole lot? Maybe they are behind the curve in terms of adding stuff that the other 4 have, but they have made changes none the less. Taking steps to reduce vibrations, adding fuel injection, etc. And the V-Rod is a big departure from traditional Harley designs.

As far as price, they have a product that people want. Regardless of why they want it. They can keep prices up and people will still buy.

Se7eN wrote:And yeah, they aren't dealerships. They're clothing stores with motorcycle s as accessories for said clothing.

Maybe the one by you is small time or something. The one by my house I've been to has close to 60 bikes on the floor as well as clothing, gear, and other accessories. It has a large parts department and service area too. That is way more bikes on the floor than I 've seen at any of the other Big 5 dealerships I've been to. Although they have floor space taken up by ATV's and Seadoo's.

Who knows. Like someone else said. Sometimes you get good ones, sometimes you get bad.

It is quite hilarious the differences we all see. My local Harley dealer looks like a clothing store with a about 5 or 6 bike spread around in the mix. You might think the bikes were just decorations. If they put mannequins on the bikes the transformation would be complete. Next door to the Harley dealer is the Suzuki dealer, same owner. Totally bikes. About 25 or 30 bikes of all different classes crammed in to a store only big enough for those bikes and an aisle or two around the bikes to walk. No room to sit on any bikes. Stuff hanging on the walls represents the available accessories or parts. No service department. The Harley dealer's side of the building also parks 6 or 7 Harleys or Buells out front, as does the Suzuki dealer. Neither place has great customer service. Seem to have a lot of customers. And the regulars have a different relationship than new customers. I've felt that before at other bike shops. People earn their way into getting real attention at a shop. I'm glad I have a great multi-brand shop near me that I have a history established. I always have a good experience at my bike shop.

t_bonee wrote:

Venarius wrote:
Harley would be forced to actually go back to the drawing board and come up with a viable design that can compete with the cheaper better technology Import bikes.

I've never owned a Harley so take this as you may, but based on what I've read and heard.

Hasn't Harley in he last few years improved their bikes a whole lot? Maybe they are behind the curve in terms of adding stuff that the other 4 have, but they have made changes none the less. Taking steps to reduce vibrations, adding fuel injection, etc. And the V-Rod is a big departure from traditional Harley designs.

As far as price, they have a product that people want. Regardless of why they want it. They can keep prices up and people will still buy.

Yes, Harley has been slowly starting to improve its lot. EFI is now on most every model if you want to pay for it for example. As far as price, your right, They can make people pay whatever they want because they sell the "dream" and people want the "dream".

BUt the V-rod...only goes to show Harley's innadiquacy. It only goes to show that Harley, because of the way they attacked the problem of going out of business (They marketed like hell instead of building a better bike), continue the pattern they have. Its like in the 60's when the japanese bikes started beating Harley in the races...instead of building better bikes Harley pulled out of the races and left them to the Japs.

harley has been out of serious Research and Development for sooo long that they could not build a competative engine in house... or even in America. They outsourced it to Europe to let Porche deliver the engine. And at that, they didn't even give porche the time requested...and porche was not exeedingly happy with the final design, even though it passed Harley's standards. Porche had developed 7 engines, and wanted a lot more time for development, But harley insisted on giving them no more time, so Porche was forced to give Harley their "Least crappy" engine out of the 7 instead of one Porche was pleased with.

All it screams to me is how dead this "buy American" thing is...As I said before, I wonder how many people would Buy American if they knew that the new models wouldn't exist unless made in Europe.

Ever wonder why Harley can't legally stamp "Made in America" on their bikes (As opposed to the backs of some specific machined in America parts)?? Its because they recieve too many parts from out of country. I tried to find that pic floating around the internet of the new set of Harley carbs sent over from Japan...but I can't right now.

Buying American only hurts American business worldwide. Ever wonder why you don't see as many Harley's in Europe, or Asia? It's because they can't rely on the "Buy American" crutch. So what good does it do to let product stagnation plague a company? Sure, they remain a powerhouse in America, but worldwide the company flounders because they can't compete. And yeah, I know you can say "But their selling more in China then they ever did before!" Yes, this is true but only because China is starting to come into the Auto revolution hardcore, so its no suprise that more Harley's are selling than 20 years ago when no one even had a car. BUt you have to look at how their selling in comparison to the compitition...and Harley's worldwide aren't exactly selling like hotcakes.

Then you add to this whole scenario the fact that my Honda VTX was designed in Ohio, and put together in Ohio by American Hands...You see that in a new world of globalization, "Buy American" is only a marketing term.

What makes the guy on the Fat Boy more "American" than the guy on the
CBR or M109? Nothing...its only an imaginary line drawn by one side because they want to feel superior.

The only reason that one could come up with is History. But Harley has been around for so long! Look everyone else copies their cruiser style!

Right, Indian came out with the First V-twin...Harley is just as much as copy cat as every other Company.

And anyway, if you pay $5-8000 more than you should just because of what the world was like 60 years ago...than go for it. You sir...truly are "American"...

If you want to see me as anything less than "American" because i don't ride a Harley...than your not the type of "American" that I want to associate with.




But back to the immediate topic, the Harley dealerships...I love going to them and any dealer because I love being immersed in anything on two wheels. I so sorely wish that the other major manufacturers would take a page from Harley and make large nice dealerships like the Harley one's. Harley know's like no other bike manufacturer how to play to the customer.

Damn Ven, you took those words right out of my mouth...again!

And have you noticed the amount of Harley clothing that is worn by a Harley rider? It's insane! When I look at an average modern Harley rider, I'd find a Harley helmet, Harley boots, Harley jacket, Harley chaps, and Harley saddlebags. Every accessory has Harley on it. It's a work of marketing genious!

I swear Steve Jobs of Apple took a page out of the Harley playbook when his company designed the IPod. It's not the IPod that earns the big bucks. It's the accessories! Not to also mention ITunes where you'd purchase the music directly from Apple.

When I go to a close by Harley dealership, half the store comprised of clothing and accessories. Accessories ranging from wall clocks, to statuettes, to refridgerator magnets. This breeds a fun shopping atmosphere. Our Harley dealership had tons of sales women that accomodated a lot of these accessories. Women shoppers (not neccessarily motorcyclist) come in and can talk about fashion of the Harley clothing.

Also, the Harley dealer is owned by an old friend of mine. When asked what percentage of his total revenue came from accessories, it was nearly 30%. Another 35% came from parts and services. And lastly, 35% came from motorcycle sales. So there you have it - 65% of my local Harley shop revenue came from accessories, parts, and services.

If I were to put up these numbers against Japanese dealers, I bet it's a totally different story. It would be stupid of me to blindly guess, but I'm willing to bet the total revenue coming from motorcycles itself will account for more than 50%.

You just don't see that kind of committment with Japanese brands when it comes to accessories. Hell, I'm not even a Harley owner and I have a Harley coffee mug, Harley fridge magnet, and a Harley wall clock. It's a totally different marketing strategy. When a company has influence beyond their core product, that's power. In Harley's case, that power comes from higher revenue earned by accessories and services and NOT by their motorcycles.

And what makes the whole scenario even more funny, is that if you look at that $60 Harley belt (literally, i have) you'll see that it along with the majority of Harley clothing is made in China. But its in a Harley store so its "American"

The other Big 4 are starting to take notice...Look at how Yamaha has separated their Star line of cruisers. Honestly, thats my biggest quarrel with Honda and the rest. Even if they did offer a Honda Mug, I wouldn't buy it. People wouldn't know if I'm pimpin a CBR, VTX, their latest Civic, or just a new power generator.

Everyone could take a lesson from Harley's marketing Genius.

Whatever! I happen to love my Harley...

I went into a Suzuki store today to check out a tinted visor for my helmet. The ONLY salesman in the place was wandering around the store like he was lost, talking on his cell phone. After about 20 minutes he managed to notice me and asked if I needed help. Before I even got the words "face shield" out of my mouth he was on the cell phone again.... and stayed there til I left.

People are people and it doesn't matter where they work. There are jerks in any brand store.

If you want the o-rings that work in the Harley shops to approach you...try sitting on a duece and go...vvrroooooommmm vvvrrrooooommm a few times. I promise you, they'll give you some attention then!!!