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I went down to my local HD shop that is just down the street from where I work, I had just started to get back to riding after many years and after a refresher course on a used 1980 Honda CX 500 I went shopping for something that would handle the open roads better.

The HD salesman and I know each other and instead of trying to get me on a new HD I guessed he sized me up fairly well as "undecided, inexperienced" and had me sit on different makes models and years in the used bike row, some felt too wide like the Honda 1800 and unbalanced, the HD bikes honestly felt like a huge vibrator, its no surprise so many women like to ride them.
And then I sat on a Yamaha, I think it was either the Silverado or Roadliner, I liked it right off, I would have committed myself but the HD store wanted to go HD financing only and though I have good credit they wanted a sizable down payment.

So I went on home to really think this over, I did need a helmet so I walked into the Yamaha shop and immediately I saw the Raider, awesome machine, balanced and just plain felt good, I was ready to buy it right there, they had a zero down financing and were open to using my credit union.

In the end I decided to not jump so far and so big of a bike and after looking at the plus points of the 1300 Tourer with the water cooling and fuel injection I thought it would be better, its more of a mid sized bike but feels longer than some of the HD bikes to me, and the price NEW was a lot better than the USED HD bikes, the payments won't kill me and its really a nice cruising bike, I am happy I bought it.

If I had a better higher paying job I would have bought a more expensive bike, the Yamaha is as big and good looking to me anyway as others costing a lot more, so my decision was derived from an economic outlook.

Mr D wrote:
If I had a better higher paying job I would have bought a more expensive bike, the Yamaha is as big and good looking to me anyway as others costing a lot more, so my decision was derived from an economic outlook.

You don't need a more expensive bike to go fast, far and have fun.

the HD bikes honestly felt like a huge vibrator, its no surprise so many women like to ride them

Personally, I don't enjoy riding something that makes me feel like the fillings in my teeth will be rattled out. I test rode several HD's this past summer and the only one I liked was the Road King. It was the only one that did not jiggle and buzz and rattle....

I think you made a good choice in your Yamaha 1300. I rode that one as well. I thought it was nice to ride. However, The Raider....wowee! However, I will continue to love my Yamaha 650 for a while longer.

When discussing the price of a bike, remember that with a Harley, it's hard to find a dealer that will sell one for MSRP or less. With any of the other brands, it's not hard to get one for below MSRP. So comparing just the MSRP of a Harley to the other brands does NOT tell the whole story.

With the economic downturn, plus the glut of used Harleys on the market, Harley dealers have started to give better deals. However, so have the other manufacturers.

And what good does it do to try and buy a Harley that has higher resale value that has an MSRP I can't afford or that I don't have the credit to buy when I can usually buy a metric bike easier and cheaper?

And I don't buy a bike for resale value. I buy to ride and rack up high miles. By the time I get done with it, it's scratched, dinged, and dirty.

Plus, I don't like chrome.

Then there are the metal parts of a Harley where others use plastic (fenders, covers, etc.), which usually makes the others lighter.

And comparing just price and resale value doesn't tell the whole story. How much longer will the others go without needing a top end rebuild when compared to a Harley? How about Harley parts and accessories, which are often higher priced, even with the aftermarket?

Add up the TOTAL cost of the Harley, and the fact that the dealers don't like to negotiate, not just MSRP and resale value.

How much standard and optional equipment does a Goldwing or BMW touring bike offer when compared to an Electra or Ultra?

How much more power do the others have?

Then there the fact that Harley doesn't make many bikes that I like and would actually buy. I currently ride an '08 Yamaha FJR1300.

Does Harley make a bike like that? NO. Even Buell didn't make a bike like that when I bought my FJR, or my previous bike ('03 ST1300). Now they are out of business. And if Buell or Harley did try to make a bike in the sport-touring class, would it have 145 HP at the crank? Would it have ABS? A power adjustable windshield? An adjustable seat? A fairing that has panels I can open to allow heat on my legs when it's cold? Factory saddlebags? A 6.6 gallon tank? Adjustable handlebars? Adjustable suspension? Saddlebags wide enough for a full face helmet? A display that tells me what gear I'm in, MPG, and ambient temperature?

And all this for an MSRP of $14,300...

Why would I pay a price that typically is higher (that you can't negotiate lower) for a bike that typically offers less, a bike that has old-school engine technology, that has nothing that comes close to a power adjustable windshield, that has no ABS AND fairing AND windshield in the $14,000 price range?

Not only that, but there is a Yamaha/Suzuki (and I think Kawasaki) dealer here in Florida (ARS Powersports in Okeechobee) that will sell any machine OTD for at or below MSRP. They price their machines so low that some of the other dealers in Florida that sell the same brands have started to lower theirs.

I was able to shame my local dealer (Sky Powersports of Lakeland) into selling me my FJR for the same price OTD as ARS quoted. I paid $13,700 OTD for it, and the MSRP was $14,300. By the time I would have paid MSRP plus typical freight, setup, and tag charges for it (like other dealers charge before negotiation), I would have paid close to $15,500.

I'm sure the same could be done for Yamaha or Suzuki (and for other metric brands) cruisers or touring bikes that compare to the various Harley models. I've seen ads in other states for metric dealers that sell the other brands that price their machines like ARS does.

How many Harley dealers do you think will sell their bikes at or below MSRP OTD? (crickets chirping...)

Yes, there are Harleys I might would buy if money were no object. Even then, a Harley wouldn't be my only bike, and I would NEVER replace a bike like my FJR with one. Maybe 10 years down the road I might change my mind. But I'm just not there yet.

But money IS an object, so I much prefer an affordable bike that does so many things well.

So that's why I have my FJR.

Does the phrase "comparing apples to oranges" mean anything to you, William? Comparing a large touring motorcycle to a sport touring motorcycle is hardly fair; if you want to be helpful, it would make much more sense to compare your FJR to the Honda ST, Kawasaki C14 or BMW K1200 instead, doncha think?

Read again. Unless I just happened to word it wrong, I wasn't comparing my FJR to a touring bike. Unless I'm missing something, I NEVER compared my FJR to a Harley (or any other) touring bike.

I was comparing based on price, and what I got for that price, versus what you get for a Harley for that price and the fact that Harley doesn't make bikes in that class.

And I was asking IF Harley made a bike in the sport-touring class, what would it offer compared to my FJR, and at what price? I also mentioned the things my FJR has that no Harley of any kind has.

Then there are all the other things I said that you didn't reply to.

This discussion is about metric versus American, and most of what I said compares just that. So it really is not apples versus oranges.

William wrote:I was comparing based on price, and what I got for that price, versus what you get for a Harley for that price and the fact that Harley doesn't make bikes in that class.

Again, "apples and oranges". If you're going to compare bikes based on features and price alone, it is only fair to do so with LIKE machines. I wouldn't compare my Ural to a GSXR, for example - two completely different machines.

I gotta say, I read your post the same as Gummiente. Sure sounded like you were comparing your FJR to the all the bikes that HD doesn't offer in the same class as an FJR and speculating on the pricing of said non-existant motorcycles.

Doesn't much sound like a viable or realistic comparison to me. Had you worded it differently, though, I think it could have been a very useful point of view and contribution to the thread. You didn't word it differently, however.

You'll notice in my signature block that I still own a Ninja 636 and until recently owned a Road Glide and just bought a Hammer 8 Ball. Granted, the Hammer cost almost 3x what I paid for the Ninja (bought it used) and has no fairing/windshield at all, I paid extra for the tach, it has less HP, it's slower off the line and lower top speed...but they're two completely different machines. They're two bikes that you can't really compare. Not even a little bit. If you could compare them, I'd be a damn fool for buying that Hammer at any price, let alone the price I paid. But you just can't draw parallels between the two, though.

First off, there was well over HALF my post where no mention was made of my FJR and it's attributes, and where I DID NOT compare my FJR to anything. In fact, if I counted correctly, there were 13 lines of my post where I mentioned the name FJR, FJR1300, or something about my FJR. There were 22 lines of my post where I DID NOT mention my FJR or something about my FJR.

Why no comments on that part (a definite majority) of my post, and it's "contribution to the thread", jaskc78?

Second, all of what I said about my FJR had to do with justifying why I bought my "metric versus American" (the subject of the topic). And part of that comparison has to do with what you get with a Harley for the price I paid for my FJR.

Third, I basically acknowledged exactly what you said, jaskc78, when you mentioned "the bikes that HD doesn't offer in the same class as an FJR". That was also a very big part of buying why I bought "metric versus American", because there is nothing non-metric out there like my bike.

And that was also part of my justification for buying metric (again, the subject of the topic). But you missed that.

Fourth, yes, IF Harley made a bike like mine with all the same equipment and features, the price of it at this point IS speculation. However, you WILL NOT convince me that Harley would sell it for the an MSRP that is the same as, or lower than the FJR.

Fifth, when mentioning that I bought my FJR for below MSRP OTD, the point behind that was that the same can be done at that dealer (and others as well) for bikes that DO compare to what Harley sells, and that Harley dealers just don't do that sort of thing.

Here is a quote of what I said: "I'm sure the same could be done for Yamaha or Suzuki (and for other metric brands) cruisers or touring bikes that compare to the various Harley models. I've seen ads in other states for metric dealers that sell the other brands that price their machines like ARS does."

That part of my post, despite previously mentioning my FJR a line or two before, was NOT comparing apples to oranges.

So like I just outlined, most or all of the 13 lines where I made any reference to my FJR was to make points that you guys didn't get.

I wrote as clearly as I could and even tried to break it down into short paragraphs in order to make my point. And yet you guys still misunderstood me.

By the way, I've had Harley guys bash me for buying what I buy, including a salesman at a Harley dealer. At least you guys get the fact that Harley doesn't make a bike like mine.

William wrote:
By the way, I've had Harley guys bash me for buying what I buy, including a salesman at a Harley dealer.

LOL how ignorant, arrogant, and clueless. Why would anyone interested in a mega HP sports tourer consider a Harley? They don't offer anything remotely similar.

It is this kind of ridiculous, arrogant, ethnocentric, extremely insecure, clueless, idiotic behavior by certain group of Harley rider wannabes that give other Harley riders a bad name.

As far as I can see, I am happy to say, not one of the regular posters on this forum belongs to that group.

William wrote:There were 22 lines of my post where I DID NOT mention my FJR or something about my FJR.

Well, had you taken the time to read the entire thread first before posting you would have realised that it had nothing to do with sport touring bikes at all - the OP was talking about cruisers. And, yes, we "get" that Harley doesn't make a sport tourer like yours. Pretty much all of us here at TMW understand that very basic concept and we really don't make a big deal out of it.

The "T" in TMW stands for "Total", btw, which means that we are an all-brand forum where riders of all makes and models are welcome to hang out. Take a deeper look around the forum and you'll see BMW guys talking with Harley guys, metric cruiser owners talking to Victory owners, sport bikers talking to dual-purpose riders... it's a beautiful thing. Hopefully you'll stick around and become a part of the camaraderie.