Total Motorcycle Community Forums

shane-o wrote:
I ride a totally black bike and what wasnt black on it when i bought it is now i wear a black helmet with a heavily black tinited visor, black jacket, black pants and black boots, you might say my bike and i are quite black in colour

You're the Black Knight!!

Brackstone wrote:

shane-o wrote:
I ride a totally black bike and what wasnt black on it when i bought it is now i wear a black helmet with a heavily black tinited visor, black jacket, black pants and black boots, you might say my bike and i are quite black in colour

You're the Black Knight!!

Hi ya brackstone



LoL @ the black night.


I chose black, cause, even if i dont have the skills of great rider (which i dont) im sure gunna fookin look like i do






8.9 out of 10 lezbians think I smell nice after being dipped in honey and smothered in chocolate.




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AlphaZed wrote:In Californication, I believe they're only legal during daylight.

In Californication? Wouldn't it be up to the creative director and the writing staff.

Johnj wrote:

AlphaZed wrote:In Californication, I believe they're only legal during daylight.

In Californication? Wouldn't it be up to the creative director and the writing staff.

Great show btw

Skier wrote:

NewGuy wrote:

Skier wrote:a modulator is I anger a driver having a bad day and they try to run me off the road.

What? 1st, I still don't understand why anyone would be "annoyed" by a modulator. 2nd, the odds that some idiot will be so annoyed that he or she would commit attempted murder is ridiculous.

I'm not sure how you mangled my post, but here goes:

I didn't mangle anything. I understood you completely, but think your fear of someone trying to kill you over a headlight modulator is ridiculous.

Some people, myself included, don't like really bright lights aimed directly into their retinas. A tailgating motorcyclist with a headlight modulator is annoying as hell to me and other folks I've talked to.

Modulators flash between hi and lo beam DURING THE DAY. If Hi beams during the day are causing you problems in DAYLIGHT you need to go see an eye doctor, because they are putting out much less light than the sun and you must be having many issues related to light sensitivity with your eyes.

When I took my MSF course it was recommended that DURING THE DAY, we run our high beams. Others recommend that too: http://www.motorcyclesafety.state.mn.us ... =5&mid=305

Even if they aren't tailgating a flashing light draws your attention (not necessarily improving your perception of distance) to the source. This can be detrimental to scanning the environment and there's plenty of folks who struggle with this without distractions.

Again, drawing attention to the bike is the goal, and since the majority of accidents (77.1% according to the Hurt study) are in the riders 11 to 1 o'clock, a headlight modulator drawing attention to the front of the bike makes good sense.

It can take less than loud pipes or modulating lights to set someone off.

Yeah, but I ride as if every driver on the road is trying to kill me. However, anything that REASONABLY helps stack the odds in my favor is a good thing. It is MUCH more likely that I will have problems due to someone not actually seeing me, and causing an accident, than it is to believe someone will actually try to commit murder. Therefore it is REASONABLE to take steps to increase visibility, and it is UNREASONABLE in the extreme to try to avoid any little thing that might annoy some equally unreasonable driver.

Remember that story a year or two ago about a woman who forced a rider off the road to prove her point of "riding is dangerous?" Her being set off was due to a loved one dying in a motorcycle wreck. Just seeing another two wheeler made her want to hurt or kill.

Low odds, yes, but why not keep them low instead of actively increasing them?

It's about doing a risk reward analysis and deciding what strategies allow you to reasonably avoid risk. Accidents at the 11 to 1 o'clock are likely, and a headlight modulator can help reduce that risk. Actual attempted murder is very unlikely (especially when compared to other risks), and anything could set off that type of rare occurrence so avoiding a valid safety measure over something like that is ridiculous.

Further, the risk of actually having someone try to murder you over a headlight modulator is extremely low compared to other risks to the rider. It makes absolutely no rational sense to avoid the most likely threat to your safety, in an effort to address one of the least likely threats to your safety. It makes no sense to make safety decisions based on that irrational fear. One has to asks if you're that worried about that type of risk, why are you even riding at all.

Regardless, let's let other readers do a direct comparison and see if they think the modulator is a good improvement in regards to visibility, and if it is so annoying as to drive others to commit murder. Click on video link on this page:
http://www.motorcyclesafety.state.mn.us ... =5&mid=291

Your argument boils down to you thinking the tradeoff of the possibility of increased visibility is worth the possibility of running into an anti-biker on a bad day.

That is not a tradeoff I'm willing to make.

Also, riding with your highbeam on during the day, with traffic, is against state law around here.

Your understanding of what headlight modulators do is incorrect. If it was true, then my motorcycle would have wig-wags which is illegal.

One last bit: the paper cited on the link to headlight modulators as a safety enhancement isn't available online and the abstract states "we don't know if they help or not but here's some tools for future studies to use if they want to tackle the question."

Skier wrote:Your argument boils down to you thinking the tradeoff of the possibility of increased visibility is worth the possibility of running into an anti-biker on a bad day.

They are not equivalent "possibilities," and those of us who are looking at this logically are looking at probabilities in our risk management analysis of this topic.

Based on your own experience, stated on this thread, and the experience of the people you know, stated on this thread, the modulators do increase conspicuity, to the point that you claim that you and your very sensitive friends get "annoyed" by it. Again, the stats show the greatest danger of a collision is a car cutting into your right of way and colliding at the riders 11 to 1 o'clock. So the stats show increasing conspicuity to the front is a benefit to help combat the highest risk. However, there is no info to support your notion that a modulator will drive cagers to commit murder, and the idea that road crazed cagers might try to purposely run motorcyclists off the road is a miniscule risk.

Also, riding with your highbeam on during the day, with traffic, is against state law around here.

Really? I used to live and work (in LE) in WA State, so let's see the RCW on that.

Your understanding of what headlight modulators do is incorrect. If it was true, then my motorcycle would have wig-wags which is illegal.

No my understanding of what modulators do is 100% correct. They are different than so called "wig wags" which are illegal except for emergency vehicles (LE, EMS, FD, etc) in most states. Modulators vary the intensity of the beam from the headlight, and most are designed to simply cause the headlight to flash between lo and hi beam, as they are not legal if the headlight shuts completely off while operating. "Wig Wags" cause ALTERNATING flashing of TWO SEPARATE lights. Again, modulators are legal under in all 50 states under 49CFR571.108. "Wig wags" are not.

Again, anyone that wants to make a comparison of whether or not a standard headlight v. a modulated headlight increases their conspicuity should go to this link: http://www.motorcyclesafety.state.mn.us ... =5&mid=291

NewGuy wrote:

Skier wrote:Your argument boils down to you thinking the tradeoff of the possibility of increased visibility is worth the possibility of running into an anti-biker on a bad day.

They are not equivalent "possibilities," and those of us who are looking at this logically are looking at probabilities in our risk management analysis of this topic.

Yes, they are not equivalent. One has less hard evidence behind but the consequences are so much greater I put more weight on it.

Based on your own experience, stated on this thread, and the experience of the people you know, stated on this thread, the modulators do increase conspicuity, to the point that you claim that you and your very sensitive friends get "annoyed" by it. Again, the stats show the greatest danger of a collision is a car cutting into your right of way and colliding at the riders 11 to 1 o'clock. So the stats show increasing conspicuity to the front is a benefit to help combat the highest risk. However, there is no info to support your notion that a modulator will drive cagers to commit murder, and the idea that road crazed cagers might try to purposely run motorcyclists off the road is a miniscule risk.

I don't buy modulators increase conspicuity enough to make that much of a difference. Often, a single beam of light, modulating or not, doesn't provide drivers looking for motorcyclists enough information about speed and distance to correctly gauge a crossing path of travel route.

A flashing light can draw attention but does not guarantee or even suggest better perception of the object, just that it's there, and often times ignored before the conscious brain receives the information.

Also, riding with your highbeam on during the day, with traffic, is against state law around here.

Really? I used to live and work (in LE) in WA State, so let's see the RCW on that.

WA RCW 46.37.523 ?

Also Idaho title 49, chapter 9 require dipping high beams for oncoming traffic.

Your understanding of what headlight modulators do is incorrect. If it was true, then my motorcycle would have wig-wags which is illegal.

No my understanding of what modulators do is 100% correct. They are different than so called "wig wags" which are illegal except for emergency vehicles (LE, EMS, FD, etc) in most states. Modulators vary the intensity of the beam from the headlight, and most are designed to simply cause the headlight to flash between lo and hi beam, as they are not legal if the headlight shuts completely off while operating. "Wig Wags" cause ALTERNATING flashing of TWO SEPARATE lights. Again, modulators are legal under in all 50 states under 49CFR571.108. "Wig wags" are not.

Flashing between high and low beam will activate different bulbs and filaments on my bike and others.

Again, anyone that wants to make a comparison of whether or not a standard headlight v. a modulated headlight increases their conspicuity should go to this link: http://www.motorcyclesafety.state.mn.us ... =5&mid=291

They do not have any hard evidence! My kingdom for a study that proves modulators are effective. I will be the first in line to buy one when this study hits the streets. Right now they are giving out dubious information under the guise of common sense.

Remember when "laying down the bike" used to be common sense for "accident avoidance?" And "no front brake?"

NewGuy wrote:

Skier wrote:Your argument boils down to you thinking the tradeoff of the possibility of increased visibility is worth the possibility of running into an anti-biker on a bad day.

They are not equivalent "possibilities," and those of us who are looking at this logically are looking at probabilities in our risk management analysis of this topic.

Based on your own experience, stated on this thread, and the experience of the people you know, stated on this thread, the modulators do increase conspicuity, to the point that you claim that you and your very sensitive friends get "annoyed" by it. Again, the stats show the greatest danger of a collision is a car cutting into your right of way and colliding at the riders 11 to 1 o'clock. So the stats show increasing conspicuity to the front is a benefit to help combat the highest risk. However, there is no info to support your notion that a modulator will drive cagers to commit murder, and the idea that road crazed cagers might try to purposely run motorcyclists off the road is a miniscule risk.

Also, riding with your highbeam on during the day, with traffic, is against state law around here.

Really? I used to live and work (in LE) in WA State, so let's see the RCW on that.

Your understanding of what headlight modulators do is incorrect. If it was true, then my motorcycle would have wig-wags which is illegal.

No my understanding of what modulators do is 100% correct. They are different than so called "wig wags" which are illegal except for emergency vehicles (LE, EMS, FD, etc) in most states. Modulators vary the intensity of the beam from the headlight, and most are designed to simply cause the headlight to flash between lo and hi beam, as they are not legal if the headlight shuts completely off while operating. "Wig Wags" cause ALTERNATING flashing of TWO SEPARATE lights. Again, modulators are legal under in all 50 states under 49CFR571.108. "Wig wags" are not.

Again, anyone that wants to make a comparison of whether or not a standard headlight v. a modulated headlight increases their conspicuity should go to this link: http://www.motorcyclesafety.state.mn.us ... =5&mid=291

dood ya just pushing sh.it up hill with your logic.

Of course its a no brainer, if you make yourself more visable then the chance is someone who wouldnt have normally seen you, will...right?


But that isnt the case in the real world, cars slam into trucks, buses run over cyclists, jumbo jets land on pedestrians, etc etc etc every day.


No fookin headlight that pulses in day light hours alone is going to save your skinny arse, further more, the only one that can save you on the roads is you.

Like the old riders saying goes "No one has seen me and those who have are trying to kill me"

All your doing is trying to bolster the amount of peeps trying to kill you, Ill stick with the no one has seen me so therefore I have to ride with 100% concentration and drive for everyone else


Im with Skier on this one !!!!



At the end of the day, if your relying on some driver to notice you to keep you safe, your gunna end up in all sorts of trouble. Being safe should have nothing to do with how the car reacts to your presence, but more how you react to it, puck putting my life into some dip "poo poo" drivers hands



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Skier wrote:

Gunslinger wrote:I don't see how loud pipes and these modulators aren't comparable. Is one more annoying than the other? I would say most definitely but some people like those pipes and the louder the better.

Look, I'm not saying these things are the greatest, but for me they get my attention. People run into cop cars, trains and other high profile vehicles all the time. The only 100% guaranteed way to not get hit is to stay home.

I'm sorry, I wasn't clear on that. They aren't comparable in terms of safety: folks buy headlight modulators in hopes of being safer, while most people buying loud exhaust either want more top-end power or to sound cooler (louder). Not many people buy pipes just because they think annoying a full city block will make them safer.

NewGuy wrote:

Skier wrote:a modulator is I anger a driver having a bad day and they try to run me off the road.

What? 1st, I still don't understand why anyone would be "annoyed" by a modulator. 2nd, the odds that some idiot will be so annoyed that he or she would commit attempted murder is ridiculous.

I'm not sure how you mangled my post, but here goes:

Some people, myself included, don't like really bright lights aimed directly into their retinas. A tailgating motorcyclist with a headlight modulator is annoying as hell to me and other folks I've talked to. Same deal with huge, lifted trucks who want to ride my bumper and have headlights shooting in both side mirrors to my face. Not exactly calming.

Even if they aren't tailgating a flashing light draws your attention (not necessarily improving your perception of distance) to the source. This can be detrimental to scanning the environment and there's plenty of folks who struggle with this without distractions.

It can take less than loud pipes or modulating lights to set someone off. Remember that story a year or two ago about a woman who forced a rider off the road to prove her point of "riding is dangerous?" Her being set off was due to a loved one dying in a motorcycle wreck. Just seeing another two wheeler made her want to hurt or kill.

Low odds, yes, but why not keep them low instead of actively increasing them?

Yes why not just eliminate this horrible odds by giving up riding all together.

Don't buy SUVs with HID headlights either. They are certainly far more annoying than some bike with a modulator. The height and the brightness of a SUV HID is sure to set off some dude in a '77 Plymouth Volare with an AK 47 in his backseat.

I don't use a modulator and I don't really have any plans on using one in the near future. And no. I don't drive an SUV with HIDs either.

I have no idea whether a modulator saves lives. But if I had to put my money on between the odds of it saving you life or the odds of it pissing off some psycho who will proceed to run you over and then push you and your bike off a cliff , I think I would...ummm....bet on the former.