YZF 600 as a starter?

[BuzZz]

Easy there, Boys. Argue, bicker, fight, kiss, hug, whine, cry or whatever all you like. But name calling is right out. I realize it hasn't got very far yet, but these things take off quickly, and I'm stopping it before it does.

Thanx and now back to your pizzin contest.

[iwannadie]

The cool thing about motorcycle throttles (or any throttle for that matter) is that you get to choose how much gas to give your engine at any given time.

VERY untrue. lets think about this for a minute. your at a stop in first gear clutch in. you rev the throttle properly(nice and slow) but you pop the clutch out(for whatever reason). with a high powered bike just a little gas with the clutch popped will no doubt jolt the bike forward and send your body Backwards. as your body goes backwards that second of fear sets in you get a death grip on the throttle. guess what happens then, you roll the throttle wide open due to the inertia of your body. a high powered bike will climb the rpms very fast, in first gear youll be doing 60++ no problem in a few seconds. doesnt sound like the best way to learn proper clutch use does it?

to me its not as you described getting to decide how much gas to give the engine. you have no say in that situation you 'get a first full of throttle'.

the same thing can happen higher in the gears too, if you cant controll the clutch it doesnt matter how carefull you are with the throttle control.

[ZooTech]

The cool thing about motorcycle throttles (or any throttle for that matter) is that you get to choose how much gas to give your engine at any given time.

VERY untrue. lets think about this for a minute. your at a stop in first gear clutch in. you rev the throttle properly(nice and slow) but you pop the clutch out(for whatever reason). with a high powered bike just a little gas with the clutch popped will no doubt jolt the bike forward and send your body Backwards. as your body goes backwards that second of fear sets in you get a death grip on the throttle. guess what happens then, you roll the throttle wide open due to the inertia of your body. a high powered bike will climb the rpms very fast, in first gear youll be doing 60++ no problem in a few seconds. doesnt sound like the best way to learn proper clutch use does it?

to me its not as you described getting to decide how much gas to give the engine. you have no say in that situation you 'get a first full of throttle'.

the same thing can happen higher in the gears too, if you cant controll the clutch it doesnt matter how carefull you are with the throttle control.

Your point being?

So you needed to learn on a Vespa...cuz the concept of a hand-operated clutch was a bit too much for you...how does this become the basis for what everyone else on earth MUST learn to ride on? Personally I DID not and still DO not find the clutch to be as tricky and hair-trigger dangerous as you make it out to be. Perhaps you had a bad experience and now want to blame the bike out of embarrassment, I dunno...and don't care to speculate. But stop acting like you've mastered some elusive skill because you can ride a motorcycle...it's really not that big a deal...

[iwannadie]

im a pretty big guy too so i know the smaller ones might not be the best idea....

if you compare the dimension youll see they are only different by a few inchs. that will not make a huge difference. if your a big guy(tall or heavy?) a more aggressive riding position found on the more sporty bike will be a nightmare for you to actually sit on. your feet are behind you a few inchs under your seat. a bigger CC engine doesnt mean bigger bike over all which doesnt mean comfort. if anything the smaller CC bikes are more comfortable for most people.

go to the dealer and sit on the bike (actual riding position) for an hour and see how they feel. youll realize how unnatural they feel(at first) and how uncomfortable it can be.

alot of people dont like to buy used sports bike because they know the chances of them being abused makes them not worth it so they loose their value alot faster(at least from what ive seen). let alone any cosmetic damage you will enounter. where as selling a traditional learner bike people arent worried as much about that sort of thing. who cares if a ninja250 has a scratch on it when you buy it, you know youll drop it anyways and add another. but noone wants to buy a cbr with scratchs already on it.

the bottom line youll buy/ride what you want. but you wont conveince anyone here your making the right choice no matter what you might think. go with the odds and get a decent learner bike first.

[NorthernPete]

NuRider, as a person new to bikes myself, Id be asking the same questions, but too be fair, you did ask "Is X a good starter bike pros cons" and you got

Nope, bad idea

and this sentiment was echoed by quite a few others, myself included (Im just going by what Ive seen and what Ive read in the product reviews) They wernt making fun of you, just pointing out that you didnt seem to hear the bad idea camp, who seems to make up a majority of the people who responded Vs the three who think it is. If you ask for opinions, dont get mad when one is offered that may not be what you want to hear.

and as for knowing how many posts you made, its not like he stalked through the forumn, just click your name, and it will show you what/where/when you posted.

[iwannadie]

Your point being?

So you needed to learn on a Vespa...cuz the concept of a hand-operated clutch was a bit too much for you...how does this become the basis for what everyone else on earth MUST learn to ride on? Personally I DID not and still DO not find the clutch to be as tricky and hair-trigger dangerous as you make it out to be. Perhaps you had a bad experience and now want to blame the bike out of embarrassment, I dunno...and don't care to speculate. But stop acting like you've mastered some elusive skill because you can ride a motorcycle...it's really not that big a deal...

this is why its pointless to argue this subject. you dont know me you dont know the level of my skill and you try to make personal attacks. i at no point made any mention of my own mastery of 2 wheel machines.

it doesnt take a rocket surgeon to grasp a sports bike will climb RPMs Alot faster than a tamer bike. the differences in bikes is very vast. rev a cbr to 4000rpms and pop the clutch your front wheel comes up, rev my bike to 4000rpms pop the clutch it doesnt. you dont need a vespa to Learn on, you need a bike that doesnt have raw power thats ment for a track. if you cant see that then theres no sense reading anything im saying you never will agree.

you made it Very specific that 'you control the throttle at all times' and thats Untrue in the examples i gave show how untrue your claim is. has no thing to do with ones ability to combine the throttle and clutch. if you make a mistake and pop the clutch you loose your control over the throttle to the engine bottom line.

you must be one of those babies that learned to tap dance before you learned to crawl.

[Mag7C]

rocket surgeon

I don't quite know what a rocket surgeon is, but it sounds like a highly advanced profession!

I agree with what you're saying about the clutch/throttle stuff though. I did it on my learning bike (which thank god was a 440cc standard) making a U-turn.

[iwannadie]

rocket surgeon

I don't quite know what a rocket surgeon is, but it sounds like a highly advanced profession!

I agree with what you're saying about the clutch/throttle stuff though. I did it on my learning bike (which thank god was a 440cc standard) making a U-turn.

my gf uses that all the time, makes me laugh every time i hear so i figured i needed a good laugh while flaming away

im glad someone can relate to what im saying. im not out to crucify anyone for their choice in bikes. just trying to relate experience to someone that came here asking an opinion which shows they want to learn. if they decide they dont like my opinion(or the other 99% of people here that go along with the general idea) and listen to the minority and take their chance on a high powered bike so be it. chances are ill see a memorial along the side of the road with your name on it.

where would you decide to Learn to swim. the kiddie pool or the shark invested 10 foot high waves of the ocean?

[ZooTech]

Well I can't relate...I guess some people have a knack for hand controls, and some don't. And that's why nobody has any business telling someone else what kind of bike to start on. Perhaps a YZF600R would have been too much bike for you to begin on, but I would have been just fine on it. If popping a wheelie at a light is really a concern of his, he can easily install a mechanical governor on the throttle which would prevent the engine from being wide-open. But if he's confident he can handle the clutch and gas without any of these crazy slip-ups you seem to be concerned with, I say more power to him (no pun intended, BTW). The bike will handle great and, in the end, that will help him gain confidence. Not everyone has time or money to waste on a throw-away bike to learn on. Some need to find one that fits and learn to ride that.

[iwannadie]

Well I can't relate...I guess some people have a knack for hand controls, and some don't. And that's why nobody has any business telling someone else what kind of bike to start on. Perhaps a YZF600R would have been too much bike for you to begin on, but I would have been just fine on it. If popping a wheelie at a light is really a concern of his, he can easily install a mechanical governor on the throttle which would prevent the engine from being wide-open. But if he's confident he can handle the clutch and gas without any of these crazy slip-ups you seem to be concerned with, I say more power to him (no pun intended, BTW). The bike will handle great and, in the end, that will help him gain confidence. Not everyone has time or money to waste on a throw-away bike to learn on. Some need to find one that fits and learn to ride that.

cant help but try to bring me personaly into your replys can you? again you have no idea what i learnd on or how i ride or any problems i may have had or not have had while learning. just because i offer up alot of words of caution to someone just learning to ride. if someone comes in asking what to learn on we should all tell them to go buy what they want? kind of defeats the idea of them seeking advice in the first place if they already know what they want. ive seen to many people make a small mistake on a high powered bike that costs them alot. the same mistake on a lesser bike would have been a learning experience no harm done.

im not Telling him what to start on, im replying to his question asking for Advice on what to start on.

makes no sense to buy a bike then have to use things to keep it in control for you. youll be a better rider if you actualy had a bike in your skill range to LEARN control over rather than rely on something to handle the bike for you. what next training wheels on the cbr? why learn to balance when the training wheels can handle that for you?

throw away bike? have you looked into the resale of a learner bike? most people pickup 250ninjas and turn around and sell them for almost what they paid for them. how is that a throw away bike? much safer of a finacial risk than financing an expessive bike then totalling it because you cant handle it. then paying off a loan on a bike thats in a scrap yard for the next 60 months.

you act like anyone that gets on a performance bike for the first time will do fine? riding is a skill you have to learn noone is born with it, some people can pick it up fast enough to handle a bigger bike sure. but you dont know how you will adapt. its a gamble with your own life, if your ok with that then go for it. some people need these ideas explained to them before they get on the bike.

but i am done with this thread. you are the forum tough guy, carry on with personal attacks and recomend all new riders go out and get a perfomance machine to learn on.