ABS on a bike that was non-ABS

[Skier]

Let me repackage things: ABS is an accident avoidance system because it allows for superior braking than a vast majority of riders.

Once again, it is NOT an accident avoidance system and to label it as such gives a false and misleading impression as to its capabilities. ABS helps reduce the chances of an accident happening by allowing the rider to brake hard while maintaining control. It does not prevent or avoid an accident from happening if the rider engages the ABS too late. As I mentioned already, all the ABS and superior braking in the world isn't going to help with a truck sitting 80ft away in a path that requires 100ft to stop.

HYPERR pretty much nailed it with his description. Still, you should Google the term "accident avoidance system"; you'll see that while ABS is an essential part of an Accident Avoidance System on cars, it is by no means the sole or stand alone component defining the system.

Since I am not gleaning any information from the many patent search results for those terms, nor gaining any understanding from a single repeated example and nobody else attempting to clarify your points, I'll bow out of the conversation.

[jstark47]

Gotta disagree there, Skier. Most tests I read in Motorcycle Consumer News, the non-ABS bikes have shorter stopping distances on dry pavement. It's on wet pavement the ABS shines.

I would regard anything IIHS publishes with a great deal of skepticism anyway. They're a puppet of the insurance industry, IMO most of their studies are strongly slanted and lack objectivity. Remember, IIHS are the clowns who classified the Buell Blast as a "supersport" bike and the V-strom and R1150R as "unclad sport bikes" in 2007!

Feel free to cite concrete sources.

If you don't accept the IIHS data, how about the MSF's? What about Promocycle's data?

Hit me with some facts that disprove these three independent sources if you want to prove your point.

(edit: I also gotta say the newer the report, the better the ABS-equipped bike performs. Trotting out something from the early 2000s doesn't pertain to new bikes!)

Finishing up some old business...... I never did get to the back issues, but in the February 2010 issue Motorcycle Consumer News tested the Moto Guzzi Stelvio. Best 60-0 stop with ABS engaged: 129.79 feet. Best stop with ABS turned off: 120.79 feet.

Howzat for a source?

[HYPERR]

Gotta disagree there, Skier. Most tests I read in Motorcycle Consumer News, the non-ABS bikes have shorter stopping distances on dry pavement. It's on wet pavement the ABS shines.

I would regard anything IIHS publishes with a great deal of skepticism anyway. They're a puppet of the insurance industry, IMO most of their studies are strongly slanted and lack objectivity. Remember, IIHS are the clowns who classified the Buell Blast as a "supersport" bike and the V-strom and R1150R as "unclad sport bikes" in 2007!

Feel free to cite concrete sources.

If you don't accept the IIHS data, how about the MSF's? What about Promocycle's data?

Hit me with some facts that disprove these three independent sources if you want to prove your point.

(edit: I also gotta say the newer the report, the better the ABS-equipped bike performs. Trotting out something from the early 2000s doesn't pertain to new bikes!)

Finishing up some old business...... I never did get to the back issues, but in the February 2010 issue Motorcycle Consumer News tested the Moto Guzzi Stelvio. Best 60-0 stop with ABS engaged: 129.79 feet. Best stop with ABS turned off: 120.79 feet.

Howzat for a source?

These kind of stats are very misleading. First of all, these are done by pro riders in a controlled environment. Not only that, they do many practice stops before recoding this actual published figure. Don Canet of Cycle World even said that he had to do tons of practice stops before he was able to better the ABS of the Honda CBR.

I would guarantee that in a real world panic situation, 99.99% of the riders will stop quicker with ABS than without. Not only that, I am willing to bet that most riders in a panic situation will lock up the front or the rear and crash.

[jstark47]

These kind of stats are very misleading.

I disagree. I think they're quite enlightening.

First of all, these are done by pro riders in a controlled environment.

Certainly. The stats I quoted were obtained by the same pro rider in the same controlled environment on the same bike. The only variable was whether the ABS was switched on or not. It is a valid comparison.

Not only that, they do many practice stops before recoding this actual published figure.

Yes indeed! The article I quote cited an average of 122-123' for stops without ABS. 120 feet was the best non-ABS stop. 129 feet was the best stop with ABS.

[HYPERR]

These kind of stats are very misleading.

I disagree. I think they're quite enlightening.

I respectfully disagree.

I still maintain that these stats are quite misleading in that it will lead the average reader into believing that they will be able to stop quicker w/o ABS. They can't. Even the skilled test riders, under a emergency situation, I believe will stop quicker with the ABS.

Emergency test stops are not like 0-60 tests. Panic stop tests are deceiving in that the actual condition of the test is completely different from real world emergency situation. In another words, the condition of the testing environment is completely different.

[jstark47]

These kind of stats are very misleading.

I disagree. I think they're quite enlightening.

I respectfully disagree.

I still maintain that these stats are quite misleading in that it will lead the average reader into believing that they will be able to stop quicker w/o ABS. They can't. Even the skilled test riders, under a emergency situation, I believe will stop quicker with the ABS.

I guess we gotta agree to disagree. Well, it's been a stimulating discussion, for sure!

As long as manufacturers sell ABS systems that can be turned off, I'm OK with it (though I'd prefer not to deal with the extra expense.) My wife's on her second ABS-equipped bike, I'll have to ask her if she leaves it turned on or off normally.

[sapaul]

I agree that we have to disagree without actually agreeing to what we agreed upon in the first place.

How about we agree that each rider is free to make their own individual decision as to whether ABS assists them in their riding or not.