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ok so if weed were legal...it would cease to be a gateway drug...?

It actually is a universal rule, thats why they put it in your car manual to get your license and the motorcycle manual. Larger people may eliminate alcohol faster than a smaller person, but the "universal" rule is 1 drink per hour.

iwannadie wrote: the whole alchoal taking 1 hour per serving to burn off is just a guess anyways and by no means a universal rule. for me it seems Alot less than that, for others i know they take one drink and are messed up for hours on end.

Yeah, the 'gateway' thing is completely bogus. A meaningless term invented to scare people off pot. I don't think pot is some wonderful cure-all for everything. But human beings have been experimenting with altered cosciousness and stress relievers for as long as we've been on the planet. It is folly to think that will ever change. I've smoked pot for 20 years. I'm in a great relationship. I have a great job and I have for over a decade. I know when its ok to smoke and when its not ok. I've never done rx, cocaine, meth, etc. Not even once. And I certainly know dozens of people with the same profile. Do I know losers who can't seem to get a job or keep an apartment or a relationship who sit around and smoke weed all the time? Who doesn't? Well, check that - I don't know anyone like that now, but I have in the past. Blaming their problems on pot is ridiculous. Their lives wouldn't fix themselves if they didn't have any pot any more. No different than the guy who spends half his paycheck at the pub every week - we all know tons of folks like that, but society has no problem there. How many methheads don't drink beer? Is beer a gateway drug? It's a throwaway term. I can't recall exact figures but at any given time the number of the US population who has tried rx is extremely high. And the percentage skews higher and higher the younger you go. It's way over half for those 40 and under. So of course pot is a 'gateway' drug.... almost every one has used it so how could it not be? Almost anyone who uses anything else has smoked pot before. But that doesn't demonstrate causation. Those terms are cooked up by PR people and those with an agenda. I know four different accountants who smoke weed.... so is smoking pot a gateway to being an accountant? Here's one... 'almost one-hundred percent of adult rx smokers are high school graduates' - so I guess high school is a gateway to drugs?

Pot can harm you. You can smoke too much of it. No arguments there. But to intimate that it's occasional, responsible use is any different than having a beer or two is intellectually dishonest. In fact I would argue that of the two, beer is worse for you in the long run. This can't be demonstrated (by me anyway) factually but I think we all know that the social cost of alcohol is catastrophic. How many people are in jail (i.e. not supporting their family, not producing anything, not paying taxes) because they don't know what they are doing when they get drunk? Brain cells don't grow back. And saying it's illegal isn't valid. Its illegality is not a trait of the substance itself, but rather something we arbitrarily placed on it.

I'm really not sure how far I want to go into this topic. It should be legal. We waste our time and money in the US fighting a war against the good citizens of our own country. Ok, they are not all good citizens, but the worst ones would be out of work if dope was run by industry instead of secretly grown in basements, sheds, distant fields and in other countries. Plus the conspiracy theorist will tell you that the same government that arrests you for drugs is supplying the drugs. I don't say that, but it is one thing I've heard said by a few somewhat looney anti-government guys I've known. Anyway, it certainly wouldn't make things worse.

I've been and on and off doobie smoker for over 20 years. I've taken a few breaks along the way for job reasons, money reasons, or just needing a stretch without it being an influence. Heck, once in a while the supply would run dry and that would force a break. It has never killed me being without, and when I've had to live for months (actually one time a year or more) without and I've been fine.

Why do you need a chemical to enjoy life? I don't know. I personally don't "need" it, and I think this is true of most users. I do know it is silly to compare it to dancing, riding, sky diving, base jumping, or any other non-chemical high. A natural high is different and I have to agree, they are a much better high when you can get them. But we do accept using (certain) chemicals in society as a way to celebrate, escape, or relax. Other chemical are viewed as evil. We use alcohol legally all over. We have bars, which have parking lots, which contain cars of the people drinking and then driving. But we accept this - it has a big history, including trying to eliminate it through prohibition. It didn't work and a lot of good people died in that war too. Maybe this will change with pot in time too.

Those who love to smoke weed are still in for an uphill battle though. It is villainized as "gate-way drug" and this is all you need to strike fear into the drug free. They ask kids in school to watch for tell-tale signs of drug use. Once the kids find the sign, they are to let the police know so they can help their parents. Ha ha. Help in the form of breaking up a family.

But people who are drug free see the drug people in a bad way and don't realize how many people who "seem" drug-free are actually secretive users. Those who know better than advertising or exposing what is a scarlet letter. The underground is bigger than they think and it is the careless and reckless they see. I know many users, and most of them don't express it outwardly outside of their inner-circle. How can trailer after trailer full of pot keep coming in this country and bust after bust seems to have little effect on the supply line? Growing demand.

I'm drug free due to fear and availability presently. I'm too old to run down to the teen hangout and buy a bag. Not that they wouldn't sell to me (although, I think they wouldn't) but I can't be known by local people as being involved. I have to keep myself underground even if I want bit for myself. It looks bad to many people and opens me up to trouble I don't need. But I hate it being this way because I don't like to drink, but I do like to sit and alter some brain chemicals from time to time and that hurts no one, accept those involved in the transport or criminalization of the drug.

I do not support across the board legalization of all drugs. I just see pot as such a harmless drug and the worse thing it does is makes a guy lazy and paranoid. Keep it out of the hands of pilots, doctors on duty, and heavy equipment operators, but quit worrying about Joe Lunchbox and his personal thrills in his off time. And regarding the gateway drug - it is silly. People who are heading down that road will do it with or without pot. The only reason pot relates to other drugs is it is illegal and the same guy who can get you a doobie (no one really says doobies any more, do they?) is the same guy who can get you an eight ball or smack. If you make pot legal you remove a big chuck of black market.

Hey, maybe that is why big brother keeps it illegal. They don't want to kill such a huge industry that keeps the jail builders working, the DEA running around busting up people's homes, and keeping the black-market alive. How else can you better feed illegal government activity without non-traceable trade? The great conservative Ronald Reagan was willing to use drugs for arms and then hang the same guy who helped him. Noriega had no idea what kind of world criminals he was dealing with - but that is a whole different discussion.

earwig wrote:It actually is a universal rule, thats why they put it in your car manual to get your license and the motorcycle manual. Larger people may eliminate alcohol faster than a smaller person, but the "universal" rule is 1 drink per hour.

iwannadie wrote: the whole alchoal taking 1 hour per serving to burn off is just a guess anyways and by no means a universal rule. for me it seems Alot less than that, for others i know they take one drink and are messed up for hours on end.

Are you sure? I thought it was 1 unit per hour, which is the equivilent of a half pint of mediocre beer, or a 25ml shot of whisky. Although I suppose you do make some pretty weak beers over the pond .

Either way, for the amount you're allowed to drink before driving, what's the point? May aswell just stay sober

Nibblet99 wrote:

earwig wrote:It actually is a universal rule, thats why they put it in your car manual to get your license and the motorcycle manual. Larger people may eliminate alcohol faster than a smaller person, but the "universal" rule is 1 drink per hour.

iwannadie wrote: the whole alchoal taking 1 hour per serving to burn off is just a guess anyways and by no means a universal rule. for me it seems Alot less than that, for others i know they take one drink and are messed up for hours on end.

Are you sure? I thought it was 1 unit per hour, which is the equivilent of a half pint of mediocre beer, or a 25ml shot of whisky. Although I suppose you do make some pretty weak beers over the pond .

Either way, for the amount you're allowed to drink before driving, what's the point? May aswell just stay sober

i was always told 'servings' as in a glass of beer or a shot of liquor either is one serving.

i dont drink american beer, god awefull stuff. no idea how people drink bud and bud light like its the greatest thing ever. guinness all the way or wheat beer i forget the name. german starts with an H?

may as well not plan to drive after drinking?

I am in agreement with all that has been said on the "pro" points to cannabis usage, so I'll try not to repeat too much. I will add that I've been a user for about 25 years with a few breaks here and there. Of course during my pregnancies I didn't use. But I didn't use anything during that time; not even caffeine. I have used both acid and mushrooms in the past, but it's been a long time for those. I loved acid, but was very nervous to use something where I can't be sure of its ingredients. Mushrooms are okay, but a bit unreliable as to their potency. I was a heavy cigarette smoker for about 15 years - that's the thing from which I need to stay away. I drink alcohol once in awhile, but I always prefer pot to alcohol.

I saw a Frontline special once regarding the pot issue in this country. There was this DEA agent who had been used to busting up coke dealers, meth labs, and crack houses. At one point he was reassigned to aid with a bunch of pot busts. They started off with the standard users, and what he found was that when they would bust into these homes, the houses were clean, the occupants gainfully employed, no violence to report. He said that at first he assumed they got the wrong folks. He realized that it was because the drug itself wasn't causing folks to go off the deep end. He said it didn't seem right that their agency was wasting time busting people who were quietly and peacefully having a good time. But, because it is illegal, that's their job. They'd threaten the user with lovely things like... taking their children away - this way they could work up to the bigger guys. Decent, tax-paying citizens just getting their ya-ya's out. It's a shame.

Dr. Andrew Weil has a great book out called "Chocolate to Morphine" in which he describes everything you would need to know about all sorts of drugs, illegal and legal. He also gives a great historical account of when and why certain drugs were made illegal. It's a great read.

Anyway... I'm a much more reasonable and lucid person if I've had a joint than if I've had a couple of drinks. I've never been physically ill from smoking too much, whereas if I drink too much, I'm in big trouble in the puking department. Keep your laws off my body, that's what I say. Oh yeah, and while we're at it, isn't it about time we let legal adults enjoy drinking legally? This drinking limit of 21-years-old is silly. If we did a better job of educating our youngsters about drugs (and I mean really educating, not just simplifying everything into "good" and "bad"), then our 18-year-olds would become a bit more responsible with their drug usage. Just a thought.

Cheers,
Loonette
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This topic has to die soon.... everytime I start reading it, I have to stop and roll and spliff......

Back in 10.......

I used to be a smoker. High school years were great. I used the stuff about 5-6 days a week at one point. Of course, I didn't have much responsibility then either. The only bad side effect I had was my short term memory sucked, then again, my short term memory has never been that great. I haven't smoked in 4 years. Although I still crave for it every now and then, I will probably never smoke it again, mainly because my wife doesn't care for it and my present job and every job I look for requires drug testing to get started or random drug testing. Growing up and having responsibility SUCKS!

Nice to see all sides to the issue here.

I don't think I'd trust a man without at least a little dirt on him.

I can speak from both sides of the fence. I fell into the party ways at a young age and it nearly destroyed me. Even so I guess it did something for me too.

I haven't touched weed or alcohol in nearly nine years or anything stronger than an asprin. My life has never been better. However, in the light of alcohol being legal, so readily available and a taxible item; why not rx? Most people I've heard of having their lives messed up is due to alcohol and hard drugs like coke or rx, etc. Alcohol is the worst "gateway" drug there is if there is such a thing.

Smokin a little herb on your day off or at xmas is nothing to get worked up about. Its when a persons gotta hit the bong every morning (afternoon) just to get out the door that theres a significant sign of a problem.

I personally have too much on the line to risk taking anything that could get me in trouble. That's a fact for me but I'd like to think others can live as they see fit.

Until we see a change in legislation (don't hold your breath) the stuff still ain't legal. No matter how crappy the law is. Those that can't moderate or handle their substances will eventually pay the piper in one form or another- period.

Getting on my bike is a better subsitute. I'm sure you get my drift man.