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iwannadie wrote:i saw a few times people saying 'youll out grow' the bike very fast. tell me how you out grow the bike? explain it to me i still after all this time cant understand why people think/say this.

From personal experience. When I first started riding, I thought a 500 was the cat's meow. But when the engine blew in that bike, I happened upon a pristine '84 NightHawk 700SC for $1900.00 and thought, "Wow! A 700! That's a good-size bike!" And it was...for a season. After riding it to Chicago against a 30mph head-wind, I realized it just didn't have enough power (80HP/45ft.lbs.) and I wanted something new with a better power-to-weight ratio (not necessarily bigger). At the time I had a divorce and bankruptcy under my belt, two and three years prior respectively, so I didn't think any bank would give me much of a loan (if any). So I saved up $5,000 cash plus my trade (the NightHawk) and went to the dealership. I told them I had picked out a handful of bikes in incremental price ranges, so they just had to tell me how much I was approved for and add that amount to my down payment and trade allowance and decide what to buy. I even had a contingency plan, which was to purchase a bike outright for ~$6,000. So, I was going to buy one of the following bikes:

- Bandit 1200 (naked) on sale for $6,000.00
- VStrom 650 for $6,699.00
- Kawasaki ZRX1200R for $8,199.00
- VStrom 1000 for $8,999.00
- Vulcan 1600 Classic for $10,599.00

The day before I went to the dealership I read a comparison of the Mean Streak against eleven other bikes, and the Mean Streak won hands down. However, it's an $11,000.00 bike, and I figured I was already setting my sights too high lookin' at the 1600 Classic. But when I didn't see one there I asked about it and they brought one (mine) over from another dealership of theirs. I came back the next day to see it...sat on it...said, "Oh yeah, baby!" and filled-out a credit application. I expected a call from the bank telling me how much I was approved for, but instead the dealership wrote up the whole deal based on the Mean Streak I sat on and sent it over for approval. The next day Wells-Fargo called and said, "When do you want to come in and sign the papers for your new Mean Streak?" And the rest was history, Folks...

Yes, it's more than you asked for (sorry...bored) but believe me, you CAN out-grow a bike you once thought was the biggest thing you'd ever ride. And skipping a few sizes in between (700 to 1600) saves money in the long run from not having to own something in the middle (1100 to 1300) to get bored with, too.

ZooTech wrote:

iwannadie wrote:i saw a few times people saying 'youll out grow' the bike very fast. tell me how you out grow the bike? explain it to me i still after all this time cant understand why people think/say this.

From personal experience. When I first started riding, I thought a 500 was the cat's meow. But when the engine blew in that bike, I happened upon a pristine '84 NightHawk 700SC for $1900.00 and thought, "Wow! A 700! That's a good-size bike!" And it was...for a season. After riding it to Chicago against a 30mph head-wind, I realized it just didn't have enough power (80HP/45ft.lbs.) and I wanted something new with a better power-to-weight ratio (not necessarily bigger). At the time I had a divorce and bankruptcy under my belt, two and three years prior respectively, so I didn't think any bank would give me much of a loan (if any). So I saved up $5,000 cash plus my trade (the NightHawk) and went to the dealership. I told them I had picked out a handful of bikes in incremental price ranges, so they just had to tell me how much I was approved for and add that amount to my down payment and trade allowance and decide what to buy. I even had a contingency plan, which was to purchase a bike outright for ~$6,000. So, I was going to buy one of the following bikes:

- Bandit 1200 (naked) on sale for $6,000.00
- VStrom 650 for $6,699.00
- Kawasaki ZRX1200R for $8,199.00
- VStrom 1000 for $8,999.00
- Vulcan 1600 Classic for $10,599.00

The day before I went to the dealership I read a comparison of the Mean Streak against eleven other bikes, and the Mean Streak won hands down. However, it's an $11,000.00 bike, and I figured I was already setting my sights too high lookin' at the 1600 Classic. But when I didn't see one there I asked about it and they brought one (mine) over from another dealership of theirs. I came back the next day to see it...sat on it...said, "Oh yeah, baby!" and filled-out a credit application. I expected a call from the bank telling me how much I was approved for, but instead the dealership wrote up the whole deal based on the Mean Streak I sat on and sent it over for approval. The next day Wells-Fargo called and said, "When do you want to come in and sign the papers for your new Mean Streak?" And the rest was history, Folks...

Yes, it's more than you asked for (sorry...bored) but believe me, you CAN out-grow a bike you once thought was the biggest thing you'd ever ride. And skipping a few sizes in between (700 to 1600) saves money in the long run from not having to own something in the middle (1100 to 1300) to get bored with, too.

ok great story and all but really where did it mention out growing a bike? to be honest it sounds like you went and got yourself the really big bike and now feel like you need to justify having it for some reason. i know people with monster SUVs that do the same thing, bragging how much ground clearence they have and full time 4wd ext. then i ask do they ever Use any of that and they say 'no'. so while they have have a huge suv with 'features' they dont use, they Are in fact using more gas, creating more pollution, at risk for more accidents. same ideas apply to getting a bigger bike. im not saying noone should but at least have a reason for it? which applys to beginners having no Reason to start on a bigger bike. your big selling point for having a big bike is passing and not having to down shift? i think thats just lazyness and not willing to know the bike and have to shift. sounds like you need an automatic maybe then you dont ever have to shift, or maybe get a supersport and leave it in first? for the normal person its not a big deal to know how to or when to down shift and apply the power when passing without a need for the always there powerband. but ride what you want again im not saying Dont have it.

for the new rider still worst case the person will 'out grow' the bike in one season, guess what you can sell that bike probally make almost what you paid to buy it, then go buy something bigger no down side.

Newrider42 wrote:While I know that skill is a very important factor in riding, I also know that an immature person will be more apt to do stupid things on a bike on purpose, such as trying a wheelie for his friends to show off. ( But I do understand where you are coming from)

I sure hope I'm more mature than this. In fact, I know I am...I like to do wheelies when nobody is looking, or even around! For the record, a KZ 650 will lift the front wheel in third if you run it to redline in second, use the clutch, and let your fingers just slip off the lever (and I weigh 215).

Much of this argument is simply personal preference and opinion, and makes for a spirited discussion. I like all the information that finds its way into these threads, because the vast, vast majority is based on real world experience. When someone's advice/opinion doesn't line up with reason, or really appears to be "made up", someone else always jumps in with reality. I think everyone is really seeing both sides of this issue. BRAVO! This is why new riders come here, and come back later. Good job folks!

ronboskz650sr wrote: I think everyone is really seeing both sides of this issue. BRAVO! This is why new riders come here, and come back later. Good job folks!

Amen. It's almost apples and oranges until you know the complete picture about someone which isn't really possible here. Newbies frequently change their minds about stuff from one day to the next... I know I did - it's all guessing until you've ridden a good bit. And a lot of people end up deciding riding wasn't for them anyway. Craigslist in Seattle has 200 used bikes listed every single day - quite a few of them, maybe half, are less than three years old, less than 5,000 miles. Which is good for me as I'd never buy a new bike! It's kinda weird - I see late model Harleys and sports bikes on there every day and I wonder how someone can decide to spend $10,000-$20,000 and then have to get rid of it 6 months later.

Maybe they just didn't know what they really needed was a Meanstreak That's a joke Zootech.

iwannadie wrote: ok great story and all but really where did it mention out growing a bike?

ZooTech wrote:I happened upon a pristine '84 NightHawk 700SC for $1900.00 and thought, "Wow! A 700! That's a good-size bike!" And it was...for a season. After riding it to Chicago against a 30mph head-wind, I realized it just didn't have enough power (80HP/45ft.lbs.) and I wanted something new with a better power-to-weight ratio

Ummm...it was that part right there. If I knew you had A.D.D. I would have made the post shorter.

iwannadie wrote: to be honest it sounds like you went and got yourself the really big bike and now feel like you need to justify having it for some reason. i know people with monster SUVs that do the same thing, bragging how much ground clearence they have and full time 4wd ext.

I don't have to justify it. To me the bike is beautiful, it fits great, it handles like no other cruiser, and the power is a blast. And I don't recall bragging about it, either.

iwannadie wrote:then i ask do they ever Use any of that and they say 'no'

Well, I use the power all the time. It's nice. If you're going to keep tooting this horn then I have to wonder why you ever stopped riding the 250 you rode during your MSF training.

iwannadie wrote:creating more pollution

Some people actually use their SUV's. Cry me a river if your lifestyle is more suited to a Geo Metro. And my bike has dual plugs per cylinder and a catalytic converter, something I have NOT seen on smaller bikes yet. The exhaust coming out of my bike is clean and free of the usual motorcycle exhaust odors.

iwannadie wrote: your big selling point for having a big bike is passing and not having to down shift?

Yup. After a ten hour ride to Chicago and having to drop two gears every time the wind started to blow I decided I was going to get a bike with really good torque.

iwannadie wrote: i think thats just lazyness and not willing to know the bike and have to shift. sounds like you need an automatic maybe then you dont ever have to shift, or maybe get a supersport and leave it in first?

Oh, aren't you just the cutest thing? Now you're attacking my riding skills saying that I need more power because I'm an idiot that can't ride. With a name like "iwannadie" I would think you were aware that not everyone is a defensive driver. Some of us like to have a bit of fun out there, but too many here are afraid to admit it.

iwannadie wrote:for the normal person its not a big deal to know how to or when to down shift and apply the power when passing without a need for the always there powerband. but ride what you want again im not saying Dont have it.

You mean, the "normal" person with big bike envy? Having tractor-like torque from idle to redline is a luxury I don't want to go back to not having. You'll be singing a different tune in a few years after you've worked your way up from whatever the hell it is you're content with now.

iwannadie wrote: for the new rider still worst case the person will 'out grow' the bike in one season, guess what you can sell that bike probally make almost what you paid to buy it, then go buy something bigger no down side.

Please, show me this magical bike that is immune to depreciation. I hear so many great things about it here in the forums! I just gotta have one!

ZooTech wrote:Please, show me this magical bike that is immune to depreciation. I hear so many great things about it here in the forums! I just gotta have one!

I don't want to get caught up in all the rest of it, but that last part isn't fair. There's dozens of used bikes ('used' being the key) that you can sell for what you paid for them several years after you bought them if you are a savvy shopper and take care of them. New bikes are of course different. I watch the used market closely where I live as a hobby and looking for undervalued fixers. I paid $1950 for the two used bikes in my driveway - they are both cherry and low miles and I could easily get $3500 for them in less than a week. This forum is full of posts where people have attested the same thing. You couldn't get what you paid for your bike, especially if you include financing, but that doesn't mean others couldn't - people do it every day. Even some almost-new Harleys will sell for more than MSRP on the used market. Not looking for an argument but I gotta call a spade a spade. It ain't magic.

First off, who wants the hassle?

Secondly, that trend is dying as of late. Interest rates are low, and the popularity of motorcycling is at an all time high. Bike makers are crankin' out new models left and right, and even Harley Davidson isn't immune to the fact that with so many bikes available, and with money being so cheap, it's gettin' harder and harder to ask what you paid for a bike.

Now, if you go and fix the bike up first that's a different story. But then, the figure you paid for the bike ain't exactly what you paid for it now is it?

ZooTech wrote:

After riding it to Chicago against a 30mph head-wind, I realized it just didn't have enough power (80HP/45ft.lbs.) and I wanted something new with a better power-to-weight ratio

ok so you outgrew your bike because of the wind? oh that makes a whole load of sense right there. thats not a case of out growing something thats a case of the real world effects. so if you move to a place with no wind your bike would out grow you and you wouldnt need it anymore? what next you out grown your bike because of the rain?

ZooTech wrote:

Yup. After a ten hour ride to Chicago and having to drop two gears every time the wind started to blow I decided I was going to get a bike with really good torque.

Oh, aren't you just the cutest thing? Now you're attacking my riding skills saying that I need more power because I'm an idiot that can't ride. With a name like "iwannadie" I would think you were aware that not everyone is a defensive driver. Some of us like to have a bit of fun out there, but too many here are afraid to admit it.

doesnt sound like you enjoy shifting gears, i didnt say anything about your ability. if you dont like to shift gears reason seems youd enjoy having an automatic. what does my name have to do with anything lol besides with a name like iwannadie(not that my name reflects anything to do with riding) youd think i was the one taking turns at 60mph dragging my knee, not a defensive rider? if i was defensive slow kinda rider id likely have a name like 'idontwannadie'?

ZooTech wrote:

You mean, the "normal" person with big bike envy? Having tractor-like torque from idle to redline is a luxury I don't want to go back to not having. You'll be singing a different tune in a few years after you've worked your way up from whatever the hell it is you're content with now.

not everyone rides just to have torque ya know, its a personal riding preference. just because you like doesnt mean everyone out theres is in 'envy' of you. alot of people would laugh at your torque as they drag their need through a turn passing you. my 600 tourer would blow your bike away in 0-60 most likely higher top end as well, plus power enough to go into a head wind. lay into any turn and stop on a dime. all with a motor thats what half as big as yours and cost me a whopping 3 grand for an 03 with about 2k miles on it. but again its all preference, you dont Need your bike nor does anyone else need a certain one, if it has a motor and 2 wheels you can have your fun on it and not out grow it.

ZooTech wrote:

Please, show me this magical bike that is immune to depreciation. I hear so many great things about it here in the forums! I just gotta have one!

go to the kbb site, and youll see the blue book on an 03 ninja 250 is about 2500$ a brand new 05 is retail 3000. 500$ for 2 full riding years isnt anthing at all. keep it just one year and make even more money when you sell it. look on ebay for more examples of this. bikes like anything will loose value but some hold it Very well. especially these 'learner' bikes. theres tons of them being bought and sold and always a high demand for them(despite what youll ever say about them people are buying them). you can buy an 03 for like 2500 ride it a season and sell it off for for 2300$. cant tell me thats cost prohibitive spending 200$ for a bike to learn on for a full year?

You're better off just not argueing with Zoo, he'd rather insult you then reason with you.

Oh wait, iwannadie does that too. Where's my popcorn?

I want the hassle. I LIKE the hassle. Mostly though, I just won't buy new vehicles. I know too much about finance. I don't buy new cars and I don't buy new bikes and I don't buy new boats. They depreciate too much the first day and there's far too many barely used ones available for a lot less money. That's not to say buying a new bike is wrong - to each his own... SOMEBODY has to buy them new or they'd never get to me. I'm not a wealthy guy but I've saved enough cash to go down and pick up three or four of the fanciest Harley on the showroom floor. But it's the principle of the thing for me - I don't pay interest on luxury items - only on my house. If I can't save the money to buy it outright then I don't really need it and I can damn sure wait on it. I do plan on getting a new bike and a larger bike - probably something in the 750-1100 range. But I see dozens of them daily that are barely past break-in and I get to keep $2-4$k in my pocket. I suppose there's a risk there with warranties and such, but a lot of warranties transfer and after 3 used bikes, 9 used cars and 1 boat I haven't been burned yet and I've saved a boatload of cash. And part of me just likes old bikes anyway. I realize I'm a freak this way but sometimes I say things to myself like, 'would I rather have this bike... or this bike and $6500', I usually choose the latter. Some of us like new stuff. Some of us prefer old stuff. Some of us are performance freaks. Some of us aren't. Some of us like doing our own mechanical work and some don't. I'll probably end up shopping around 'til I find a really clean low-miles Shadow circa 2000 or so, pay 3k cash from a motivated seller and keep the rest in my pocket. I'm patient and I enjoy looking for the right deal. Say whatever you want about that philosophy - it's a lot of things, but it ain't 'wrong'. I don't have any car payments. I don't have any bike payments. I don't have a credit card balance. But I do have a hell of a lot of fun riding motorcycles every time the sun comes out. like I said before - to each their own. There's more than one way to skin a cat.