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It is a different place for sure oldnslo. Some of it is the price of 'progress' I suspect. But I know what you are saying about pride. There's a thin line between 'pride' and 'blind nationalism'. I love my country. But I'm frequently disappointed by the actions of those in power. In our current political climate the act of voicing a dissenting opinion is likened to treason by some and that is unfair and simpleminded. If our country were invaded by China or Martians or whoever, I'd be the first guy with a gun in my hand. This country does have enemies to be sure - I just happen to think we're spending a lot of money and lives without actually fighting the right people.

This thread got a lot more civil towards the end, and a lot of good points were made.

I am an American, and I drive a 250cc on a regular basis. However, I don't drive it on the highway for fear of bodily injury to myself. Can my bike go 80? Sure. Can it go from 50 to 80 quick enough to pass a semi truck or speed up when traffic is trying to merge in the 50 foot space they are allotted, or fast enough to speed up out of the way of the semi that just lost his breaks?? Nope, not really. In fact, my 250 is one of the faster 250cc cruisers (the alphasport), but it is still slower than my car, and doesnt have the low range grunt for quick getup and go.

I love driving it around, but I usually go no more than 30 miles at a time. I like to take roads that have speed limits under 65mph, and I don't ride 2-up. Like it was already said, if you are driving with the big dogs (SUV's, trucks, fast cars, etc) you need to be able to keep yourself safe. Not to mention, a lot of people have motorcycles as a toy, not a commuter vehicle. What fun is a toy that can't keep up with people's econoboxes.

Another thing to consider is the American "sub 500cc" market. There practically is none. The Alphasport was by far the best bike under 500cc's I could find, and I really had to look to actually find one. You never see many 250's on the showroom floor. The only ones I saw were the Rebel and the Virago...which are made for midgets. The average american male is somewhere around 5'9 tall, and many I know are a LOT bigger. Smaller bikes just dont have comfy ergos for the most part.

Now, I do agree that 650cc is a good size, and for solo riding by myself, a Yamaha V-star 650 is probably my next bike. However, once I add luggage and a pretty lady for the back, I'm almost back in the same boat with acceleration on the highway.

I could go on for days about things that drive American buyers to buy big bikes... be it the sound, the feel, the look, etc. A lot of it does have to do with size... we want to feel secure while going 70mph. We also want something people will compliment us for. Most people spend their day in a boring job with no self-satisfaction... our leisure time is when we feel like we are living our life. So what if the engine is big... it still gets better gas mileage than our cars (although I still think they could be better).

Just a quick comment on the pride thing, yes our country has problems...which one doesn't? But I'm not willing to throw the baby out with the bathwater. I still feel very much blessed to have been born and raised here, and there's nowhere I'd rather live.

On a more personal note, the current deterioration of our society, in my opinion, is in direct correlation with Biblical prophecy. So rather than getting all worked-up about the state of the world, I actually take a certain amount of satisfaction reading the paper and watching the news and seeing everything playing out exactly as prophesized.

Only trouble is, while we wait for the Book of Revelations to play out, all hell is falling about our shoulders.
Incidentally, if you can place any credibility in the magazine Business Week, as I have for many years, China and India will be the next economic giants, relegating the US to a struggling 3rd place. As always, it will be only temporary, for a few hundred years or so.

my experience prior to 1986 is admittedly limited (being born in '83 and all) - however the impression I get from those I trust that were rather established prior to the 80's is that one didn't have a need for a CHL before then because people still had an inkling of responsibility - and if you carried, you carried - if you didn't, you didn't - and it was entirely your business, not the state's.

I agree we've got problems, but considering where I am, and where I've been - we're not alone, and we're by far not the worst.

Anthony

This thread has gotten way too preachy.

And I'm about to make it even 'preachier':

Anybody who thinks it's "gotten worse" in America has either lived in a secluded little area, away from harm all their life and all of the sudden experienced some local violence, or they are just plain ignorant.


Maybe "your' area has changed since 1986, but trust me, if you lived in the right place (or wrong for that matter) at any time in American history, you could experience the same amount, (if not more at times) violence than you see today.

If you feel as if 'all of the sudden I have to bear arms to be safe' then where have you been living?

Many people live secluded in the states, away from poverty-stricken areas where people have nothing and are desperate on all levels. They only see some reports on their tv and think that it has nothing to do with them.

I lived in Norfolk, Virginia for a short time growing up and saw more senseless violence in those 4 years than in all my time here in Los Angeles, which is reputed as being one of the worst metropolitan areas crime-wise in the US.-- And that was in the 80's!

And Geore Bush's administration's actions have nothing to do with the way many people who live in this country feel about anything... from the environment here, to the situation in Iraq. Don't judge me because of the president here. -- I vote... I didn't vote for him. We still have personal freedoms here that many take for granted.

I am not going to apologize for being born in a country that has problems, but is still better than everyone elses. If you're jealous, then move here for a while and make a decision... or shut up.
--- And don't bi*ch about this country cause you think it's 'gotten worse'. If you are an American, show it. You have the ability to change your surroundings through positive actions in a short period of time more than most people on this earth will ever be able to in a lifetime.


-- I thought this thread was about engine displacement... oh well, I've just contributed to the tangent, so I can't complain.

Anthony - thank you for everything you're doing. Take care, and come home safe.

As far as bigger bikes, I'm new, so my opinion is based on limited experience. I think it does depend on how and why you ride. I used my V Star more for riding with my friends and on the highway. Now that it's gone and I'm looking for another bike, I've been using my Rebel for commuting to work and I have no complaints riding it 15 miles on the Interstate during rush hour. (but then again, I'm an av. size female, not an av size man) That's not to say it's perfect, or that it's ended my quest for a 500-800cc bike, but I can keep up with traffic, the vibration doesn't kill me, and I don't find I'm being blown around much more than on the V-Star.

An 800 is as big as I'm looking at now. I'm not much into power, which some folks are, and that's great. It makes them happy and they use it. I won't, or at least much. I just want something smooth, and that when I go out riding with a group, I won't have to worry too much about keeping up. Most everyone I ride with is on the midsize bikes anyway.

True, their are certain Americans that may be into the bigger is better thing, but I think most just take advantage of what's out there. My impression of Zoo Tech (sorry to call you out, you're the only one I can think of with a big bike) is that he truly enjoys what his bike can do, and rides it for that purpose. I can see why he wants a Mean Streak. It probably puts a smile on his face each time he gets on it. I suspect people like me will never get that big of bike because I'll never use it like he does.

As far as society going down the tubes...my guess is it's that way everywhere. If anything gives me hope, it's our kids. I teach H.S., and they truly are great. Sure their spoiled, think they're invincible etc... but didn't we all.

Once the thread topic runs its course, friendly family discussion usually ensues. That's one of the great things here. The thread originator will pipe up if he needs more info.

oldnslo wrote:
You all can self-generate all the "pride" you want, but this is a different, but not better, place than it once was. I never felt the need to have a concealed weapon permit until 1986. Nobody locked their doors at home when I grew up, and it was common to leave the keys in the ignition of cars parked in the driveway. It was also an extrtemely rare event for anyone to get shot by his neighbor. Oh, yes, things have changed, to be sure.

Where were you during the Watts riots?
or the million other times there was violence in america prior to 1986?

Where were you when parts of Cleveland in the 70s to 90's were almost impossibe to walk through or drive through at any time of day? -- Now those same areas are home to parks and shops as safe as any place is in the US.

There is a constant ebb and flow. With the population rising constantly, all that's left is action from the people. You personally can decide what you want your actions to be... there are millions of others out there that cannot do that.

Both my spousette and I love our 805cc Suzukis . They are plenty big for all of our needs . Albeit the freeways or two lane blacktop .
And like oldnslo , I too , remember the days when you could leave your keys in the ignition , leave your screen door open at nite during the summers without worrying about home invasions , going off and leaving your doors unlocked , etc.
Where was I during the Watt's Riots , why living in the Haight-Ashbury in San Francisco , where else?........
Kind regards, Wizzard