downshifting to 1st gear trouble...

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TheImp · #41 Post by **TheImp** » Wed Apr 12, 2006 8:47 pm

I have to admit, today as I was riding and getting more comfortable with this model bike I have, I started doing 1/2 clutch shifts myself. My shifts are smoother this way, meaning less jerking, but perhaps if I pulled in fully and released more smoothly I wouldn't have that, who knows.

The thing is though, I've driven stick shift cars for a while in the past and even then I never pushed in the clutch all the way to the floor, only just far enough to shift without a grind. This is clearly something I need to look into myself. I'm going to research it somewhat and see what I can find out.

pseudopod · #42 Post by **pseudopod** » Wed Apr 12, 2006 9:14 pm

I think there is some ambiguity on what people mean when they say "full clutch". I think Verm is interpreting this as meaning to pull his clutch lever all the way to his grip while other people are actually mean to pull the clutch lever far enough past the friction point that the shift is smooth and the tranny doesn't get any abnormal wear These two points can be very different, depending on the bike.

TheImp · #43 Post by **TheImp** » Wed Apr 12, 2006 9:21 pm

pseudopod wrote:I think there is some ambiguity on what people mean when they say "full clutch". I think Verm is interpreting this as meaning to pull his clutch lever all the way to his grip while other people are actually mean to pull the clutch lever far enough past the friction point that the shift is smooth and the tranny doesn't get any abnormal wear These two points can be very different, depending on the bike.

I wish that's the case but I think they're saying that pulling in the clutch all the way in is the only proper way. I'm still not convinced.

Kal · #44 Post by **Kal** » Wed Apr 12, 2006 11:28 pm

Err actually I think I am on the same wave length with Pesudopod...

Once you are past the bite point/friction point the clutch is disengaged so more movement on the clutch then is unnecessary...

I think this is programmed into Brits due to the lack of automatic cars over here...

roscowgo · #45 Post by **roscowgo** » Thu Apr 13, 2006 1:40 am

clutchless shifting is possible. its horrible on the tranny though. pull that lever all the way in every time.

speaking of clutchless shifting, i had a 79 MG at one point, clutch went mostly kablooie, say like 1/4 disengage. and you had to drive and grind the friggin thing like a maniac.

of course the tape player also slowed down when you hit the brakes, and you had to bleed the brakes everytime you stopped.... I loved that car

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1979-Bri ... dZViewItem

VermilionX · #46 Post by **VermilionX** » Thu Apr 13, 2006 3:32 am

pseudopod wrote:I think there is some ambiguity on what people mean when they say "full clutch". I think Verm is interpreting this as meaning to pull his clutch lever all the way to his grip while other people are actually mean to pull the clutch lever far enough past the friction point that the shift is smooth and the tranny doesn't get any abnormal wear These two points can be very different, depending on the bike.

nope, they do mean to pull the clutch all the way in.

like i said, i don't get the crunching sound shifting except the few times when i downshift to 1st gear.

so to wrap it all up....

1st gear needs more clutch pull than other gears and eventhough my bike can go 98mph in 1st, i still need to slow down more before i downshift to 1st.

problem was already solved in page 1 of this thread.

im not upset though, im just saying my bike only needs around ½ clutch or less to release the gears. exception to the rule is downshifting to 1st gear.

our bikes our diff so i dunno.

CMGS5 · #47 Post by **CMGS5** » Thu Apr 13, 2006 3:54 am

I don't usually clutch when going up thru the gears from 3 to 6, but downshifting i always clutch fully and slow down to appropriate speed, I have always found first to be very sensitive, If anything say you are downshifting from 4th let the clutch out for a second in 2nd gear and then try to shift to 1st it seems to make the transition alot more smooth

Sev · #48 Post by **Sev** » Thu Apr 13, 2006 3:58 am

Considering you never actually said that, no we were still right.

A half pull on the clutch implies that you're still in the friction zone. A full pull implies that you've reached the point where the clutch disengages. Which brings me to another point.

Engage means that you should have forward motion, and the clutch is all the way out. Disengaging the clutch means you've disconnected the drive train and are safe to shift.

That being said, you should fuly disconnect the drive train every time you shift. If you've been doing so on every other shift then your problem shifting into first is not stemming from your clutch, rather your speed when you attempt to shift into furst. Pulling the clutch in further will NOT solve your problem (if you are describing what you are doing accurately). Because you just said your solution is to, "fully disengage the clutch, then disengage it a little more." That's like cutting all the way through an apple, then cutting it a little more.

You're trying to shift into first gear to early... slow down more first. Not pull the handle further.

VermilionX · #49 Post by **VermilionX** » Thu Apr 13, 2006 4:10 am

Sevulturus wrote: You're trying to shift into first gear to early... slow down more first. Not pull the handle further.

so we just had some misinterpretation, that's all.

but you still brought up a interesting point...

so my clutch application wasn't part of the problem.

it's just bec downshifting to 1st gear needs slower speed regardless of how fast my bike can go in 1st gear.

thanks Sev!

CNF2002 · #50 Post by **CNF2002** » Thu Apr 13, 2006 4:53 am

V, I dont know much about bike clutches so I cant help you on the details there like others have.

But, I'm still learning how to shift smoothly and I've been riding almost every day for a year. Sometimes (not often!) I will lift a gear too lightly and end up between gears, or into neutral, or estimate my engine speed wrong and get a little more engine brake than I expected. Some days I wonder if I ever rode a bike at all, most days I shift without thinking.

That said, it sounds like you are jumping from "basic" riding to "expert" riding, now with the clutch. Clutchless shifting? It sounds very complicated to do, at least for someone whos only been riding a few months. I wouldnt dream of trying something like that, I'm still in beginner. I have to at least get to intermediate first!

Whats the point of it? It can only be bad for your tranny unless you absolutely know what you are doing. A few days ago you posted that you are trying this, and now you are posting that you are having problems shifting into 1st.

Ride like a beginner...stop trying to do expert stuff, its not good for the bike.

Anyway, it could also be low tranny fluid. Maybe when you crashed, some spilled out! Check the level.