My M.S.F class was a joke...

[anarchy]

On another note, there were two people in the class that passed, that in my opinion, have no business being on the road at all, let alone on a motorcycle. They managed to barely pass the evaluation, but I fear for their safety if they don't practice often before venturing out on the streets. Brealy the basic skills, and in an emergency situation they will just freeze and let it all unfold before them

as an msf instructor, this is one of the biggest challenges i face. if they pass the evaluation, they pass. i can't fail them, and that concerns me. after the evaluations, i have a private one-on-one talk with each of the students. during that talk, i am honest with them. if i have a concern for their safety on the road, i tell them that. i stress they need a lot more practice before riding on the road. surprisingly (maybe), a lot of them take this to heart and are thankful for the honesty.

[sharpmagna]

anarchy - our instructors did the same after our course. I called my buddy right after passing and he told me I was now certified to ride in a parking lot

Our instructors told as all afterwards, that the BRC was a good basis but that we should still practice on our bikes before heading on the roads.

[High_Side]

I never took the class (been riding since I was 5) but my wife did. She had a dirt bike for a year before getting a street bike and was very close to being a more experienced rider than the instructor when she took the course.
The trouble with many motorcycle "instructors" is that they are new riders themselves. It seems to be some kind of "holy grail of acceptance" for some new riders to finally achieve the 12-18 months of licenced riding before they can get qualified to be instructors themselves. My experience in riding with some of these "instructors" is that they have barely mastered the basic techniques of riding a motorcycle. Still, everyone can learn something from taking a course from an experienced instructor ( this is why I encouraged my wife to take the course in the first place), but even the most reputable local riding school that we have here in town uses recent graduates as instructors.
I would still recommend taking training for anyone who hasn't ridden before, but insist that your instructor has at least 100,000 km experience in riding and /or buy a dirt bike and learn the skills quickly. Don't waste your money on an instructor that is less than qualified.

[anarchy]

i think, like everything, you're going find some bad instructors. and just because an instructor is a recent graduate doesn't mean they don't have experience or can't teach. i've seen instructors with over 100,000km of riding experience that can't teach their way out of a paper bag. i've also seen excellent instructors that have only been riding for two years... while riding experience should carry some weight, it shouldn't be the only factor.

with you and your wife's riding experience, you should increase the quality of the program by becoming instructors.

[High_Side]

i think, like everything, you're going find some bad instructors. and just because an instructor is a recent graduate doesn't mean they don't have experience or can't teach.

Actually, being a recent graduate (in the case of new riders) means just that.....not enough experience to teach. There is nothing wrong with that, but how many flight instructors got thier licence last year? You should have some experience before teaching others, no?

i've seen instructors with over 100,000km of riding experience that can't teach their way out of a paper bag. i've also seen excellent instructors that have only been riding for two years... while riding experience should carry some weight, it shouldn't be the only factor.

Of course it shouldn't be the only factor! But perhaps it should be a factor?

with you and your wife's riding experience, you should increase the quality of the program by becoming instructors.

Even with riding for 31 years I would be a poor instructor (no patience, no interest and I am selfish with my riding time). Jen would likely be a far better instructor than me, but has real limits on her time as well (and I won't speak for her interest). After paying for a poor and even dangerous riding course herself, she seems to be even less inclined to believe in rider training than I am. And THAT, is why you need to understand what you are getting when you when you sign up for a course.

[anarchy]

i think, like everything, you're going find some bad instructors. and just because an instructor is a recent graduate doesn't mean they don't have experience or can't teach.

Actually, being a recent graduate (in the case of new riders) means just that.....not enough experience to teach. There is nothing wrong with that, but how many flight instructors got thier licence last year? You should have some experience before teaching others, no?

the point i am making is that just because someone is a recent graduate (of the instructor class) doesn't mean they don't have experience to teach. like you, they may have been riding for 31 years and have over 100,000km under their belt and just graduated. would that be enough experience to teach??

i the case of new riders, i would tend to agree...

i've seen instructors with over 100,000km of riding experience that can't teach their way out of a paper bag. i've also seen excellent instructors that have only been riding for two years... while riding experience should carry some weight, it shouldn't be the only factor.

Of course it shouldn't be the only factor! But perhaps it should be a factor?

i think that's what i said...

with you and your wife's riding experience, you should increase the quality of the program by becoming instructors.

Even with riding for 31 years I would be a poor instructor (no patience, no interest and I am selfish with my riding time). Jen would likely be a far better instructor than me, but has real limits on her time as well (and I won't speak for her interest). After paying for a poor and even dangerous riding course herself, she seems to be even less inclined to believe in rider training than I am. And THAT, is why you need to understand what you are getting when you when you sign up for a course.

agree... there is, and should be, an expectation of the quality of training you're getting when you sign up for a course. it's a shame when you pay and don't get it. i'm sorry your wife had the bad experience.

[boulevardbiker]

It's too bad that you had such a terrible experience with the class. My son and I took it last year and it was awesome. Most fun I'd had in a long while. Hopefully you'll make up for it by having a great riding career. Stay safe and enjoy!

[High_Side]

i think, like everything, you're going find some bad instructors. and just because an instructor is a recent graduate doesn't mean they don't have experience or can't teach.

Actually, being a recent graduate (in the case of new riders) means just that.....not enough experience to teach. There is nothing wrong with that, but how many flight instructors got thier licence last year? You should have some experience before teaching others, no?

the point i am making is that just because someone is a recent graduate (of the instructor class) doesn't mean they don't have experience to teach. like you, they may have been riding for 31 years and have over 100,000km under their belt and just graduated. would that be enough experience to teach??

i the case of new riders, i would tend to agree...

It seems that we likely have a different definition of what is a new rider. We both believe that "new riders" shouldn't be charging for training, but you have seen "new riders with only two years under their belt" be excellent riding instructors. I would consider it a stretch for an instructor to be of the quality that I would be willing to pay for with only two years under thier belt. They could be out there. They may have seen a lot for their experieince level and be quite talented. They could have excellent "training skills", but if I was training to get my pilots licence, I would be prefer the person who has been a bush pilot to the person with a great personality, minimal experience and a wealth of enthusiasm. Different standards, and maybe I ask for too much.

i've seen instructors with over 100,000km of riding experience that can't teach their way out of a paper bag. i've also seen excellent instructors that have only been riding for two years... while riding experience should carry some weight, it shouldn't be the only factor.

Of course it shouldn't be the only factor! But perhaps it should be a factor?

i think that's what i said...

Actually you tried to allude to "a point" that I had stated that experience should be the only factor. Of course I never said that, and was pointing it out in the quote above.

with you and your wife's riding experience, you should increase the quality of the program by becoming instructors.

Even with riding for 31 years I would be a poor instructor (no patience, no interest and I am selfish with my riding time). Jen would likely be a far better instructor than me, but has real limits on her time as well (and I won't speak for her interest). After paying for a poor and even dangerous riding course herself, she seems to be even less inclined to believe in rider training than I am. And THAT, is why you need to understand what you are getting when you when you sign up for a course.

agree... there is, and should be, an expectation of the quality of training you're getting when you sign up for a course. it's a shame when you pay and don't get it. i'm sorry your wife had the bad experience.

We survived By posting this I really just wanted to warn others of what is out there in the line of rider training. I'm not a great rider by any means but I have met a few "instructors" over the past several years who have caused me to shake my head in amazement that they actually get paid to teach others how to ride. In Canada at least, I feel the bar is set far too low. The recently-graduated new riders may seem like great instructors to other new riders, but are they filling your head with b.s., or do they really have good command of a motorcycle? Find out before you spend the $$$$