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This is an interesting discussion all around. I tend to agree with Sev's point of view where religion is concerned. Growing up in a Muslim and Hindu household the only aspects of religion I saw were dogmatic. There was not much of an issue other than lip service for good deeds, much more of an issue of you're either one or the other. Visitng both sides of the family is always very interesting...

As far as creationism vs evolution. I don't buy into creationism at all. If there is a god, how can we begin to fathom anything done by it? I'm not a big believer in faith in God's master plan. That sounds like a bunch of bull**** made up by religious leaders to keep their control. Whether Moses, Jesus, Mohammed, Abraham, Noah or any of the other prophets actually communicated with any sort of higher power we'll never know. If you do believe any of the holy texts contain the holy written word try this exercise we did in a history class of mine.

The professor whispered something into a student's ear and had that student whisper it to the next. This continued till the whisper had reached the last of the 45 students. The last student was asked to stand up and recite the statment, which was completely different than the one orginally given by the professor. Do you really think these texts have not been changed drastically over the years?

Muslims believe the Qu'ran has not changed due it orginally being written in Arabic. I'm not sure about Jews, Hindus, or Eastern religions. I don't speak or read Arabic, but am an Anglo-Saxonist major. In my linguistics studies the Germanic languages have changed dramatically over the years to become English. This was brought about as the Germanic tribes spread came in contact with the Angles and the language was softened to a less gutral sound. The same is true with Spanish, where we see the Spanish spoken in Latin-America is different than in Spain. So I find it hard to believe that Arabic has not changed, and through it the Qu'ran.

Sevulturus wrote:Your DNA is 99% identical to that of a chimpanzee. If you want to talk about the differences between man and beast you might want to chew on that for... a couple minutes.

and I think it's also about 96% identical to a banana

I'm out of this discussion, having had it many times before, but I saw this article today and since it seemed germane to the discussion I thought I'd post a link in case anyone was interested...

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/printFrien ... 64,00.html

interesting thoughts... scienctists do uncover many mysteries. But myseries still exist.

To zarakand......i pray to God. Namely Christ. On one occasion in particular when I was praying, I heard this thought, " Today SOMEONE DIFFERENT is going to get up infront of you and tell you to MOVE." I went to church later that morning and the pastor wasn't there. His brother was preaching(someone different). At the beginning of the service he said, "I'm going to ask everyone to do something at the end of the service. I'm going to ask you to MOVE." And the movement he was talking about was a decision to stand for God in everything we do. To stop following the ways of this world. So I stood. I don't know exactly why the Lord told me this before the service. Obviously I can't prove this. I did not make this up. But I can tell you that God listens to prayers. IF we humble ourselves to him he will hear us and show us mercy. Maybe the political aspect of religion had ideas to control the people. But when God speaks to you personally, I think its time to Listen. As for the wisper theory, i've done that too. And its guite funny what comes out at the end. But the law of God has not changed and it will not change. It has withstood the test of time. Though some would like to say otherwise.

This topic is awesome. All the different views cause me to question aspects I maybe hadn't in the past. But the funny thing is that they only reaffirm my faith in God.

And to Niblett-maybe thats why I like bananas so much.

When God speaks to you personally it's time to seek psychiatric help.

Sevulturus wrote:When God speaks to you personally it's time to seek psychiatric help.

Our church has a psychiatrist who also hears God speak. She spends every Friday night leading a program called Celebrate Recovery at the church. It's kind of like AA, but it's for any kind of hurt, habit or hang-up. It's based on the beatitudes (sermon on the mount) straight out of the Bible, and is an ongoing program for the last two years.

Many people have recieved help for many and varied serious problems at this program. Everything from broken marriages healed, to drug addictions cured instantaneously by the power of faith in Jesus, and the act of paying attention to God as he speaks to his folks. If you hear God speak, and you decide to seek help, He will send you to the right psychiatrist. I've seen that in action in our church.

It can take years for a person to see enough to convince them, but it starts with taking a look with open eyes and heart. That's human nature..I hope I didn't just highjack the thread by accident...um, I vote creation again (sorry).

I think the thread bounced the wrong way about two pages back.

That said, this is off the original topic:

I'm not going to say God doesn't exist, or that he can't talk to people..

But people, in and of themselves, are a powerful thing. The human mind will (or won't) believe certain things, even if they're way off base (or completely normal).

If you tell yourself 'I think I can', you're more likely to succeed. Heck, a positive mindset is often all it takes to get from failure to success.

Even if you only use God as a tool, to find something to believe in, as long as he represent good values (Honesty, modesty, peace, love, joy, kindness, etc), and through him (real or not) you exhibit those values.. that's all good by me.

amen.

ronboskz650sr wrote:

Sevulturus wrote:When God speaks to you personally it's time to seek psychiatric help.

Our church has a psychiatrist who also hears God speak. She spends every Friday night leading a program called Celebrate Recovery at the church. It's kind of like AA, but it's for any kind of hurt, habit or hang-up. It's based on the beatitudes (sermon on the mount) straight out of the Bible, and is an ongoing program for the last two years.

Many people have recieved help for many and varied serious problems at this program. Everything from broken marriages healed, to drug addictions cured instantaneously by the power of faith in Jesus, and the act of paying attention to God as he speaks to his folks. If you hear God speak, and you decide to seek help, He will send you to the right psychiatrist. I've seen that in action in our church.

It can take years for a person to see enough to convince them, but it starts with taking a look with open eyes and heart. That's human nature..I hope I didn't just highjack the thread by accident...um, I vote creation again (sorry).

Sorry, that was a bad joke. I wasn't meant to be taken seriously, however I think you'll find that even people who do believe in God have a lot of trouble believing that someone else has actually spoken to him. Recieved his messages. Not in a general sense, but in a definitive and specific way. I think this has a lot to do with jealousy. What has he done to deserve to hear God?

Everyone wants to believe that they are better then those around them in some way. We may not admit it, even to ourselves, but it's the truth. We all strive to be better at something, we all search for something that makes us standout from the rest. And we're hurt when we find out that we aren't, that we're just another person. That is why people who believe in God are so willing to discount others claims of having spoken to God. That is why I made the joke, because even in faith there is a lack of faith.

Sevulturus wrote: Everyone wants to believe that they are better then those around them in some way. We may not admit it, even to ourselves, but it's the truth. We all strive to be better at something, we all search for something that makes us standout from the rest. And we're hurt when we find out that we aren't, that we're just another person. That is why people who believe in God are so willing to discount others claims of having spoken to God.

I'll give you this, to a certain extent. But, people tend to generalize and say 'everyone' without seeing outside their own culture. There's a very good number. I think it's quite the nature of man to have the urge to be better, or have nicer things, but that beyond that, it can be controlled, or extinguished.

Think of it like.. people who take a vow (or just choose) celebacy. It's not like the urge isn't ever there, but it's controlled and in time even broken. It's not the most common thing, I suppose, but you don't have to be a buddhist monk to do it.