9/11/2001

[scan]

Scan,

You're wrong. I most certainly can question an order from above. It is called the Constitutional Paradigm, and it is the focus of any study of military ethics. I am not bound to follow an order that is contrary to the Constitution or the Uniform Code of Military Justice.

This is not intended to be a trite answer, since the applications of this principle obviously involve a great deal of grey area. But to portray the military as a group of mindless automatons is overly simplistic and shows a knowledge of the military gained only from watching Rambo and Star Ship Troopers.

Anybody on this forum who expresses pity for "the poor, brainwashed military member" needs to step down off their high horse. I am privileged to lead and serve with some exceptionally bright and motivated young men and women. They have no illusions about the complexities of the war and politics, yet they continue to serve because of a sense of duty and honor.

You did make my point though. The process to challenge a mandate from the Commader and Chief is not easy, as well as challenging the whole chain of command of the military. Mindless? No, I don't think any of them are mindless. I'm sure they would challenge an order from a superior that was unjust or contrary to the UCMJ. You are all simply obligated to carry out that mandate that you swore to uphold. I see that as honorable. The men who put men like you in such a possition of defending something so stupid, I have no respect for at all.

God save this country. If I had a flag in front of my house I'd have to fly it upside down, because we are a nation in distress.

[Shorts]

Faithful service and pride...but for what? Duty and honor? for what?? Why are we in Iraq? Where are the weapons of mass destruction???

I did not mean to imply that our military is a pack of mindless killers, but I am very surprised that they continue to fight an endless war when it is obvious of the Bush administration's intentions. Or maybe they have no idea of such war crimes? Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11 and posed no threat to the American public. It's sad we haven't even caught Osama Bin Laden. Maybe because the Bush family has major ties with the Bin Laden family with their oil business....but hey, what do I know??

But I understand pulling out of Iraq immediately is much easier said than done. It's all a big, disastrous mess. And my best guess is that Bush will leave this conflict hanging in the white house for our next president to clean up.

If you're asking "for what"?, then you're not even close to understanding. Military service, contrary to idiotic belief, is not based on Iraq. So, pull that from your argument right there.

No one said anything about mindless killers, so why is that on your mind?

I can't speak for Bush, his administration or his connection to anyone. I don't know him, you don't either. Where do you get your "info"?

As for leaving conflicts for future administrations to clean up, Bin Laden and Bill Clinton ring a bell?

[ofblong]

Faithful service and pride...but for what? Duty and honor? for what?? Why are we in Iraq? Where are the weapons of mass destruction???

I did not mean to imply that our military is a pack of mindless killers, but I am very surprised that they continue to fight an endless war when it is obvious of the Bush administration's intentions. Or maybe they have no idea of such war crimes? Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11 and posed no threat to the American public. It's sad we haven't even caught Osama Bin Laden. Maybe because the Bush family has major ties with the Bin Laden family with their oil business....but hey, what do I know??

But I understand pulling out of Iraq immediately is much easier said than done. It's all a big, disastrous mess. And my best guess is that Bush will leave this conflict hanging in the white house for our next president to clean up.

If you're asking "for what"?, then you're not even close to understanding. Military service, contrary to idiotic belief, is not based on Iraq. So, pull that from your argument right there.

No one said anything about mindless killers, so why is that on your mind?

I can't speak for Bush, his administration or his connection to anyone. I don't know him, you don't either. Where do you get your "info"?

As for leaving conflicts for future administrations to clean up, Bin Laden and Bill Clinton ring a bell?

yeah everyone assumes it was George Bush's fault for the 9/11 but in reality it was Clintons fault. Just like the economy was starting a downhill slide during clintons rain not bush's. It just happened to get really bad and bottom out during bush administration. Dont worry I am sure we will have a women president next and then all hell will break loose. Then everyone will blame it on bush just because they dont like him and they cant admit that maybe that certain women wasnt the right person for the job (note I am NOT saying women shouldnt be president only that the one running shouldnt be president).

[Shorts]

Scan, I'm pretty understanding of "their jobs". You're preaching to the choir and not really making any additional points.

"Brainwashed" was in response to another post.

Life in the military, contrary to the media, is not with Iraq in focus 24/7. Are there operations there? Sure, but that's not the only thing going on in the world. Because it isn't mainstream media doesn't mean it doesn't exist.


Seems like AFN programming should be run on the civilian market and start educating the masses.

[scan]

yeah everyone assumes it was George Bush's fault for the 9/11 but in reality it was Clintons fault. Just like the economy was starting a downhill slide during clintons rain not bush's. It just happened to get really bad and bottom out during bush administration. Dont worry I am sure we will have a women president next and then all hell will break loose. Then everyone will blame it on bush just because they dont like him and they cant admit that maybe that certain women wasnt the right person for the job (note I am NOT saying women shouldnt be president only that the one running shouldnt be president).

This is so nutty. We all know the whole thing is really Bush Senior's fault.... wait, no Reagan, yeah, he was the one that funded the Afganistan military.

Anyway, 9-11 is not Bush's fault.

9-11 is not Sadam's fault.

9-11 was the fault of several Saudi Arabian guys who are now dead. They flew planes into the buildings, which is very hard to survive through. In reality, we don't know for sure who even ordered the whole thing. Bin Laden wants it to be him whether he did it or not. That gives him a whole lot of extra power.

The war in Iraq is most certainly Bush's fault though.

[dr_bar]

I can't stand the politicians that put our service men & women at risk, or the ones that put US service men & women at risk. I can understand the necessity at times, but the current conflict in Iraq is pushing it, as is Afghanistan. Don't get me wrong, I support the troops with all my heart. I just don't see why they have to be fighting someone else's war again.

[Shorts]

Saddam didn't fully comply with the deadlines and actions called for by the UN.

Would this inquiry into Iraq have happened if 9/11 didn't happen?

[erbgottie]

i'm currently in the navy and going on tour in Afghanistan. I know we all hate politicians, don't lie, we do. What happens, happens, I just want my homefront to be behind me all the way, even if politicians are a-holes and do stupid things. All we want as soldiers/saliors is knowing that our own people back us up. I joined for 6 years and that's all i'm doing but i'm proud to be a veteran and serve my country through good and bad, someone has to. I have great respect for my brothers and sisters doing it now and those still doing it far after I leave. Yeah, life sucks being in the military a lot, but I will NEVER forget the awesome experiences and the great people I've met; not to mention all the crazy good countries I've been too being in the navy.

[ofblong]

yeah everyone assumes it was George Bush's fault for the 9/11 but in reality it was Clintons fault. Just like the economy was starting a downhill slide during clintons rain not bush's. It just happened to get really bad and bottom out during bush administration. Dont worry I am sure we will have a women president next and then all hell will break loose. Then everyone will blame it on bush just because they dont like him and they cant admit that maybe that certain women wasnt the right person for the job (note I am NOT saying women shouldnt be president only that the one running shouldnt be president).

This is so nutty. We all know the whole thing is really Bush Senior's fault.... wait, no Reagan, yeah, he was the one that funded the Afganistan military.

Anyway, 9-11 is not Bush's fault.

9-11 is not Sadam's fault.

9-11 was the fault of several Saudi Arabian guys who are now dead. They flew planes into the buildings, which is very hard to survive through. In reality, we don't know for sure who even ordered the whole thing. Bin Laden wants it to be him whether he did it or not. That gives him a whole lot of extra power.

The war in Iraq is most certainly Bush's fault though.

yes iraq was his fault but the twin towers could have been maybe not prevented but actions should have been taken during clintons term to try and illiminate that possible threat rather than ignore the threat. as for the other part where you said whos fault well your right I dont really know. When reagon and bush senior were in office I wasnt old enough to vote. Nor was I when clinton got office the first time (cant remember if I was the second term).

[kali]

I think it's very naive of someone to believe and support "a war on 'terror". It's surprising how blinded some are to the reasons why we entered Iraq and how fear of another 9 11 will persuade them.

I can not provide any numbers or statistics, but this war in Iraq has caused a lot of hate for the US from LARGE numbers of people. I assure anyone that the people throughout the world are beginning to hate America more and more every day. America is only fueling the fire to more terrorism while they try and stop the few terrorists that we are already aware of. The media claims we are not fighting a country or governmental rule, but instead "terrorists"?? The more you think about their reasons for entering Iraq, the more you realize how badly we are getting screwed and lied to us. Sadly enough, more terrorists are born everyday. If the American hegemon continues to behave like they have been, twenty years from now we will have a much larger problem.

I do not blame our soliders in Iraq and I feel nothing but sorry for them. Sometimes I question the extent to which they are being brainwashed and misled by their leaders. I have nothing but total respect and remorse for them because they are losing their lives due to our greedy administration and corporate owners. I hope they all will come home someday. I hope the election in 2008 will not lead to another scandal and lies similar to what happened in Florida of 2000.

Kali, I agree with everything you have said. We need more people of your knowledge and awareness of what's really happening today. People who aren't afraid to reveal the truth, regardless of consequences.

sigh no one on this thread gets it. We arent supporting the reason for the war but rather supporting those that are going to war. I am glad that those soldiers went so I dint have to, be it through a draft or some other means forcing me to.

Dieing they are. But not for your freedom. Well at least you are honest enough to admit you are to cowardly to fight for your own version of 'freedom'. Let someone else die for it and criticize those that point out it is murder to kill anyone, especially children and civilians. And then you admit "the reason" is in error? What f@cking planet, reality, and God make up your universe? Wimpy wishy washy talk about 'supporting the troops'. With what, why guns and armor a$$hole to kill children for the wrong "reason".