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Posted: Thu Jan 31, 2008 6:16 am
by x0054
Assisted suicides are illegal for sure, and attempted suicides, while not punished directly, are in fact punished through involuntary commitments. So, for instance, I can not kill my self openly. Federal government constitutionally can not control suicides, you are right, the states are left to their own devices on the issue, but in fact most make it "illegal." They simple enforce the laws through the state mental health system,
- Bogdan
Posted: Thu Jan 31, 2008 6:49 am
by Johnj
x0054 wrote:Johnj wrote:No responsible adult would take your position. Responsible adults do try to protect sixteen year olds from killing themselves. Once you turn 21 then you have rights but suicide is illegal in most jurisdictions so that isn't one of them.
The fact that suicide is illegal in US is a travesty all in its self. So, John, we can send a 17 year old to IRAQ and have him drive a tank, but by God, don't let him ride a literbike?
Once again you missed 'the point'. Suicide is illegal in most jurisdictions so the suicidal can be given help for their mental illness, not to put them in jail. Seventeen year olds need their parents permission to join the military, Then they go through basic training, then infantry school, then tank school. By the time the seventeen year old is sent to Iraq they have had six months to a year of training. Your advocating putting novice riders on 1000cc sportbikes and turning them loose.
Posted: Thu Jan 31, 2008 7:15 am
by Brackstone
Johnj wrote:x0054 wrote:Johnj wrote:No responsible adult would take your position. Responsible adults do try to protect sixteen year olds from killing themselves. Once you turn 21 then you have rights but suicide is illegal in most jurisdictions so that isn't one of them.
The fact that suicide is illegal in US is a travesty all in its self. So, John, we can send a 17 year old to IRAQ and have him drive a tank, but by God, don't let him ride a literbike?
Once again you missed 'the point'. Suicide is illegal in most jurisdictions so the suicidal can be given help for their mental illness, not to put them in jail. Seventeen year olds need their parents permission to join the military, Then they go through basic training, then infantry school, then tank school. By the time the seventeen year old is sent to Iraq they have had six months to a year of training. Your advocating putting novice riders on 1000cc sportbikes and turning them loose.
I just wanted to link to this as you posted Army Iraq and Suicides in the same statement:
http://www.cnn.com/2008/HEALTH/01/31/ar ... index.html
Back to the issue at hand:
Having any suicide be illegal is still immoral IMO. Some people just don't want to live anymore. They don't have a chemical iunbalance, or some sort of psychiatric problem other than they are tired of life.
You want to have a license for suicide as well? Have to be evaluated by a team of doctors in order to say "Well we can't find anything wrong with you so go ahead."
Nobody should step in over what anyone wants to do ever as long as they aren't hurting anyone else.
If everyone wants to ride without helmets? Fine, who cares? Why are you concerned with protecting other people?
America loves poking their noses into peoples personal affairs and other countries politics. So I'm surprised the UK law hasn't been implemented here to begin with.
But lets just leave well enough alone.
If some 16 y/o kids PARENTS let him buy a 1000cc death machine then thats not my problem. Parents need to be more involved in EVERYTHING their kids do, video games, movies, internet usage, etc.
If an Adult wants to buy a 1000cc motorcycle as their first and be stupid then that should be fine as well.
Posted: Thu Jan 31, 2008 8:08 am
by Johnj
And when your suicidal sixteen year old, who you bought a 1000cc deathmachine for, plows into a Mini, killing the 24 year old pregnant woman, her two year old, and the unborn child, who's the responsible party.
Listen to yourself for just a moment. Your saying that ending your life because your having a bad day, month, year, is a viable option to solve your problem.
Posted: Thu Jan 31, 2008 8:27 am
by x0054
Killing one self is a natural right, just because you do not think it's proper for you does not make you the judge of what is good for me.
And how about a 16 year old plowing his Ninja 250 into the same mini? Or his 1980s camaro?
You want to be safe, and you think that every one should value safety as much as you do. But not every one does.
- Bogdan
Posted: Thu Jan 31, 2008 9:08 am
by jonnythan
Johnj wrote:And when your suicidal sixteen year old, who you bought a 1000cc deathmachine for, plows into a Mini, killing the 24 year old pregnant woman, her two year old, and the unborn child, who's the responsible party.
Listen to yourself for just a moment. Your saying that ending your life because your having a bad day, month, year, is a viable option to solve your problem.
Ending *your* life should be your decision.
Ending someone else's is quite a different thing altogether.
Posted: Thu Jan 31, 2008 9:53 am
by blues2cruise
Brackstone wrote:
Back to the issue at hand:
Nobody should step in over what anyone wants to do ever as long as they aren't hurting anyone else.
If everyone wants to ride without helmets? Fine, who cares? Why are you concerned with protecting other people?
We don't care if you die from a brain that could end up like porridge or a head injury that leaves you drooling and sitting in a wheelchair waiting for someone to push you to the dining room for your pureed meal.....We care about the fact that we have to pay for your care. It's also another reason that helmet laws may come into existence for ski hills.
If some 16 y/o kids PARENTS let him buy a 1000cc death machine then thats not my problem. Parents need to be more involved in EVERYTHING their kids do, video games, movies, internet usage, etc.
That is the very reason why restrictions would be a good idea. If someone doesn't think it is cool, then they don't have to take up riding a motorcycle.
If an Adult wants to buy a 1000cc motorcycle as their first and be stupid then that should be fine as well.
There are plenty of adults who have yet to develop any common sense. Again...the ramifications of a beginner on a 1000cc bike are not just about himself. If he rides off the road or into a post or heaven forbid another person....the emergency crews need to clean up his mess and then one of 2 things will more than likely happen. Either his family will be planning a funeral or the state will be paying for his care. (The state being all of us)
It's us.....the general public that need protecting from the boneheads who do the stupid things.
Posted: Thu Jan 31, 2008 9:59 am
by shane-o
x0054 wrote:shane-o wrote:hmmmmm, let me see......You ignoramus
how the puck is the government going to make me vote? huh what!!!!! you think they line us all up then throw a ballot card in front of you, then apply nipple cramps and some water torture, then start flicking ya balls with a wet towel all at gun point until you either fill the card out or die
wake up
95% participation due to fines if you do not vote. Simple, it works. Voting is a right, not voting is a right too. Oh, and I love how personal you get about this
lol once again you talk from your arse
In Australia i have to choices with voting;
1st... I can choose to register to vote or not...If I choose not, i never have to vote and its free of charge.
2nd...If i do commit and register to vote....If i then dont vote, I will be fined a small insignificant amount, but still not forced to vote.
Some how that seems a mile away from what your referring to, and although I respect the USA, there is no way on gods earth I want to follow in its footstep on just about all its policies foreign and domestic.
So.... thanks for playing but go "donut" your self ya unwitty
Posted: Thu Jan 31, 2008 10:14 am
by blues2cruise
x0054 wrote:blues2cruise wrote:
Your attitude regarding the availability of cheap parts is quite disturbing.
And I think that women should not drive because they suck at it, and that Nineteenth Amendment was a mistake all together. But all the same, look at that, they can. You know why, freedom, yes, it comes at a cost.
You are standing on thin ice. Better be careful.
Women are not second class people. They fought long and hard to get some equality. Fortunately most men are not like you.
http://thenagain.info/WebChron/USA/19Amend.html
I am a lawyer by trade.
I couldn't imagine hiring someone as immature as you. Isn't a lawyer supposed to uphold the law? When you get called to the bar, isn't there some sort of oath?
The point is, when you make tough laws, you make it hard for reasonable people like you and me, well at least you, to comply with them.
I have no problem complying with the laws. It is you who seem to have the problem. You have complained about it and flaunted your lawlessness. While the idiot contingent in our society
looking in a mirror when you said that? will still find a way to bypass the law and hurt them selves and others.
- Bogdan
Posted: Thu Jan 31, 2008 10:50 am
by x0054
Blues: Could you please be more careful in quoting me, some one might read this page and attribute your even handed and fair comments, along with my psychotic ramblings, to me.
As to the rest of the issues. I stated my case. I have yet to hear yours. If you spent less time attacking me personally and rather further discussed the issue, maybe this topic would actually be anything other then a flame war.
So, let's restate the issues again:
1. People hurting them selves and ONLY them selves on a bike that is way out of their skill range is a good thing because:
a. It removes the stupid people from the gene pool.
b. It provides cheep used parts for me, and the rest of the riders.
c. It makes roads less crowded.
d. It promotes freedom of choice.
2. The kind of person who would buy a literbike as a lerner is equally dangerous on that bike to others as he/she would be on or in any other type of vehicle, or for that matter, in any other aspect of that persons life.
3. The kind of person who would buy a literbike as a learner would easily bypass any laws or find some one, me for instance, to help him do so. And I would, gladly. See points 1 and 2.
4. Finally, the only reason people like restrictive laws is because it makes them feel safe. We should NEVER trade freedom for safety. That's why I am disappointed with the direction this country is going, as well as others.
- Bogdan