Total Motorcycle Community Forums

storysunfolding wrote: and a gas gas

I use the rear brake quite a lot, actually, but in a fairly limited range of situations:

For low speed work (traffic, u turns, etc.), along with using my clutch.
When braking from higher speeds, to initiate weight transfer to the front tire for increased traction (I step on the rear brake just a fraction before squeezing the front brake lever, but brake mainly with the front disks).
In a sweeping turn, I sometimes (though preferably rarely) use it to stabilize the chassis.

So essentially, I use the rear brake as a modulator/stabilizer, and don't really think of it as something to slow/stop the bike. That's what the fronts are for.

Grey Thumper wrote:In a sweeping turn, I sometimes (though preferably rarely) use it to stabilize the chassis.

What exactly is it that you think you're doing here?

storysunfolding wrote:

Grey Thumper wrote:In a sweeping turn, I sometimes (though preferably rarely) use it to stabilize the chassis.

What exactly is it that you think you're doing here?

Like I said, it's something I prefer to do rarely (if at all) because it means I need to correct a mistake, and went into a turn with a bit too much speed (or the turn is slightly downhill). Obviously, rolling off the throttle and using the front brake is an absolute no no in this case. But I find that keeping the throttle steady and just applying a tiny amount of rear brake can scrub off just enough speed and make the bike feel more stable. Note: it's basically - uh - a dab of rear brake, and doesn't involve keeping the rear brake on; that leads to its own set of problems.

It also doesn't apply when you're really going into a turn too hot, which of course demands a different approach (and which I'm only aware of in theory, since I'm generally pretty slow).

Wrider wrote:They were right with the rear brake through slow corners. But you need to use the front brakes more than the rear when stopping from high speeds. The front brake provides 70% of the stopping force under normal conditions. I'm not recommending just using the front brake, but I know a lot of people who do.
Wrider

People just use the front break? I hear it makes you fly over your handle bars so I only use the rear.

Grey Thumper wrote: Like I said, it's something I prefer to do rarely (if at all) because it means I need to correct a mistake, and went into a turn with a bit too much speed (or the turn is slightly downhill). Obviously, rolling off the throttle and using the front brake is an absolute no no in this case.

You know this is an interesting statement, especially given your first one, and I'm not 100% sure how to address it without sounding like a complete jerk. One thing to note is that using the front brake or rolling off the throttle IS an option, even for street riding. It's also not that advanced a technique and something I'm sure many reading this have done once or twice. Getting some intruction on how to do this will give you a much better, precise and refined tool for what you are talking about. Obviously severe applications of the front brake or a big roll off create a different scenario hence why we tell beginners not to ever do these.

One of the best ways to learn about riding is from introspection, and from feedback from fellow riders (especially the ones that care about what they are doing). If you can find one, I highly recommend taking the MSF ARC-ST or the Lee Parks Total Control class. Even if you can get into one of those- pick up a copy (even from the library) of Sport Riding Techniques (Nick Ienatsch), Total Control (Lee Parks), or Twist of the Wrist 2 (Keith Code). While these are modeled off a sportbike since they take these techniques to the extreme, they apply to all facet of riding.

No worries, storysunfolding. It's the net after all; I give people the benefit of the doubt and consider how tough it is to convey mood, tone and intent, given the only tools available are text on a screen.

I've got Ienatsch's book and both of Code's (still have to get Park's). Actually, what I was describing was noted by Ienatsch, maybe I just didn't communicate well enough . . .



The key, as you noted, is getting some track time and pro instruction in actually applying all this theory in a controlled environment. Park's course isn't available where I am, but the ARC is, which I should really look into taking. I've only had my current bike for less than a year though, and I always had the impression that you need to know your bike really well to get the most out of ARC.

I feel for the OP actually. The brake lever and pedal are, IMHO, the toughest (and arguably most important) controls to master. Braking is practically an art in the degree of constant refining it needs. Pretty overwhelming, considering the contribution braking technique makes in both getting a rider into or out of trouble.

Um, there is another braking factor that has been missed out of the equation in this topic (Im guilty as well in my previous post)


Front
+
Rear
+
engine

Tadahhh!!!



If you use your brakes (either front or rear) without clutch, you will gain extra smooth stopping power.


A little test for you guys new to riding:


Pick a bit of quiet road, select a point that you will ride to with the intention of practicing an emergency stop (say 15mph), hold the clutch in and make the stop then note where you stopped and feel of the bike under brake.

Repeat this, only this time, do not clutch !!! you can clutch when you have near come to stop as in preventing the bike from stalling (doesnt matter if the bike stalls)
now note the stopping distance and feel of the stop.


If you did this at 15-30mph you will be quite shocked at the smaller amount of brake needed to make the same stop, and you will prolly stop in a shorter distance.


Braking is at its most effective when used with the engine under load.



Id appreciate any comments from the Course Instructors on this.


.

shane-o wrote: Front
+
Rear
+
engine

Tadahhh!!!

gsJack wrote:Learn to use all three of your brakes all the time; front, rear, and engine.......................

I spent a lot of time trail braking hard into corners using all three brakes a few years ago just for the fun of it. Ienatsch is right on in the quote above, your rear brake can be your best friend in corners.