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ofblong wrote:ahh but you dont seem to see the truth wolf. By not voting you risk allowing the worse of the 2 evils in. By saying the lesser of 2 evils we are saying we dont have a choice because we dont. If we dont chose the lesser then the greater of the evils might get in and make things worse. For the last 3 elections we have had no choice but to vote for the lesser of the evils. By putting your x you are in essance wasting your time by even going to the polls.

Hi ofblong

For some of us, the worst of evils takes power whichever establishment party gets the majority vote.

All consensus politicians (the establishment parties) are here on a ticket to murder and exploit. By voting for one party because you think it might offer a crumb of comfort more than the other, you are merely signalling your helplessness and your acceptance of a tyrannical system.

It's like saying, if I vote for this guy rather than this one, maybe he won't beat me so hard. It's a slavish and powerless position to take.

And they call it 'Democracy!' - every four or five years the establishment allows us to indicate a single collective preference for what two more-or-less-identical parties say they have decided to do for us! That's democracy? ROTFLMFAO! it's very clever. It gives an illusion of people power while effectively shutting everyone up.

The joke is that your country and mine mindlessly accept this situation while going about congratulating themselves on their 'freedoms.' It's not a joke - it's a black comedy.

Oh well! If, despite all the evidence, you think the present order of things is somehow OK but it just needs better people to run it (a highly deluded notion , in my view, but a very common one) then I guess there might be some rationality in your view, but personally, I don't see it.

There is no way to change the way things work because of the views of most of the idiotic people that live in these places. So in essance the only way to stand is "lesser of the evils". I understand what your saying but until we become a majority rather than a minority there isnt anything we can do about it. If I could have voted during Clinton's duration (I was too young to vote at the time) I would have voted Clinton because he wasnt an evil in my mind but a clear cut winner. so I have seen times where the presidency actually has had worthwhile candidates. I also think that had Mrs Clinton been the candidate running rather than Obama she would have won because I know I would have voted for her. The only problem most people have with clinton is her obvious stupidity when it comes to the right to bear arms. I dont understand how these people can see banning guns will help when places who have banned them have seen 300% increases in other crimes because of it.

I mean, for example, I would rather see a rapist shot in the head than actually able to "finish" leaving some poor innocent victum (male or female) scarred for life and possibly pregnant.

sorry i went off topic......

ofblong wrote:There is no way to change the way things work because of the views of most of the idiotic people that live in these places.

You are right. There is no immediate way to change things, but accepting a position of powerlessness now ensures that there never will be a way of changing things in the future either. The system depends on exactly this kind of servile acceptance to maintain itself - just as all tyrannical systems have done in the past.

As for your saying that other people are idiots, now that upsets me. People aren't idiots, they are confused, insecure, and bamboozled by the mouthwash that pours out of the media and the educational system day-after-day. They are no more idiots than you are; they are just clinging to a different security blanket, that's all.

And while dissenters continue to cling to their own security blankets, there is no way to help others find the courage to let go and start to look at the world through their own eyes. That is why it is necessary to take a stand - no-matter how small.

As for Bill Clinton. The bizarre notion still seems to persist both in the US and the UK that he was some kind of Liberal (even in the water-thin US meaning of that term). Truth is, his stated policies were as conservative and as visciously business-oriented as the present president's, and within its own context his foreign policy was as agressive as that of any American head of state this century. The bottom line is that his commitment to running an exploitative system was as thorough as Bush Jnr's.

There really isn't any meaningful choice.

(From an outsider's perspective, the gun issue appears to be a huge red herring - a very American obsession. To a European it is just a curiosity of American culture, not a significant political debate. So, I wouldn't want to comment.)

ofblong said what I was thinking about the lesser of two evils and voting. I know, it isn't perfect, nothing about the system is. I guess we each have our individual 'acts of dissent' so to speak.

Within this lesser of two evils, I'm going to pick the one that won't make me as unhappy as the other will. If the country is going in the tank, I'm going to at least enjoy my rights...kinda like being the violinist on the Titanic as it sinks



With the nomination of VP, I'm interested and optimistic about where things might be going.

Shorts wrote:

Within this lesser of two evils, I'm going to pick the one that won't make me as unhappy as the other will. If the country is going in the tank, I'm going to at least enjoy my rights...kinda like being the violinist on the Titanic as it sinks

LOL and bon voyage!

Hope you've got some good tunes, Shorts. I suspect we shall all need them soon.

Shorts wrote:ofblong said what I was thinking about the lesser of two evils and voting. I know, it isn't perfect, nothing about the system is. I guess we each have our individual 'acts of dissent' so to speak.

Within this lesser of two evils, I'm going to pick the one that won't make me as unhappy as the other will. If the country is going in the tank, I'm going to at least enjoy my rights...kinda like being the violinist on the Titanic as it sinks



With the nomination of VP, I'm interested and optimistic about where things might be going.

You know it's funny - I feel the same way only on the opposite side of the vote. I want to have my marriage recognized by the government, so that it doesn't matter what state Veda and I live in, we are still able to take care of each other without crazy legal wrangling.

Nalian wrote: You know it's funny - I feel the same way only on the opposite side of the vote. I want to have my marriage recognized by the government, so that it doesn't matter what state Veda and I live in, we are still able to take care of each other without crazy legal wrangling.

I know it. Everyone does it (votes for their candidate) for their own good reasons. What I find more ironic is that its the government getting in both our ways

Shorts wrote:With the nomination of VP, I'm interested and optimistic about where things might be going.

If you're talking about Palin, I'm really afraid... I actually can see her as President and with comparisons being made between her and the "Iron Lady".... YIKES!!!

dr_bar wrote:

Shorts wrote:With the nomination of VP, I'm interested and optimistic about where things might be going.

If you're talking about Palin, I'm really afraid... I actually can see her as President and with comparisons being made between her and the "Iron Lady".... YIKES!!!

I'm glad you cleared that up doc. I feared she might be an alter ego of Michael Palin one of our own dear Monty Python team.

Are you SURE she isnt!

From what I've read, it seems very likely to me.