Total Motorcycle Community Forums

I still don't think you got their point.

Just let it go.

Sevulturus wrote:Just let it go.

what? and here i thought i got the similarity already...

am i wrong about the head and eyes functioning the same eventhough your body and hand don't function the same?

and if you mean practicing crawling speed tight turns as a SEPARATE concept... then i get that part too. i'll pratice it as well, just not on top of my list right now.

besides, im not bad at crawling speed turns, just not good enough yet for the DMV test.

Don't forget to wear your scarfe, this will improve the head movement as you will know which way is left and which is right, be sure to follow the scarfe all the way around with your head. This will improve your balance as it will automatically position your body on the bike.

Let me jump in here...

First, lay off VX. He is obviously learning, there is no need to rub it in or down him for his choice of bike. Also, from what I have read, he is an eager learner, he will be a good rider.

Now about the CA DMV test: Unless you have taken the CA test you dont have the right to insult VX. The CA is very hard for beginners riding top heavy bikes.

I practiced on the course for hours, it was not easy at all. I also dropped my bike on the course, and know many who have. VX is right, the DMV test really isnt a good test. Bikes with a lower center of gravity surely have an easier time with it, but the test shouldnt be contengent upon the bike you own. I would bet 100 bucks that half of the people giving VX trouble would also fail the test the first time on a top heavy bike.

My only point is that the test is a poor one. The level of difficulty between the MSF course and the DMV test is not even close. If both are ways to get a license, then why are the difficulty levels so different?

---------------
"I've always seen it as a test to see if a rider posesses the skillset to handle a motorcycle on public roads up to about 25 MPH. Every rider I've personally met that complained about the test was a sub-par rider at all speeds.

Acquiring the skills and proper techniques for passing the DMV test provides a solid foundation for controlling your motorcycle at all speeds. Simple as that."
----------------

I dont agree. Of course new riders are "sub-par" riders... duh. The test should be more along the lines of the MSF test, otherwise it doesnt make alot of sense. Riders do need to learn the skills, but not be forced to take a test that requires hours of practice and might entail damaging your bike.

Having said that, of course slow speed manuevering is important. I personally practiced my butt off and still do on occasion. Being able to perform slow, tight turns in a crowded parking lot is absolutely essential. It just takes time and practice.

let me just chime in here.

The dmv circle is approximately 20 feet in diameter. All of you badmouthing Vermilion: I'd like to see you make it on a sportbike. Perhaps on a small cruiser you can do it. But I repeat: when I do it on sv650s, my hands *touch the gas tank* as I turn the front wheel all the way.

While I was there, another guy & his girlfriend were practicing on a little dirtbke (yamaha 125l). I actually borrowed the bike from them and was able to make a few clockwise circles. *That* is what you need to pass the dmv test. But I fail to see how that teaches me how to ride *my* bike.

I have already taken MSF course in Toronto. There is *no comparison* between it and the dmv bullshit. The exercises you have to do on the MSF are a lot more balanced, with slow speed sharp turns as well as high speed manuevers (emergency stop, emergency swerve, boomerang, etc.) Those things you are actually going to use on the road every day.

So far I don't see how it is physically possible to make that circle, nor what is the point of that exercise. Perhaps on a cruiser it would be easier -- at least the handlebars wouldn't hit the gas tank as you try to turn.

ninja79 wrote: So far I don't see how it is physically possible to make that circle, nor what is the point of that exercise. Perhaps on a cruiser it would be easier -- at least the handlebars wouldn't hit the gas tank as you try to turn.

the guy who coached me last month can do it on his busa. im amazed. ...but he said it took him a long time to be able to do it.

and even he said it's not a good test of overall riding skill. he said if you're into stunts, it would help practicing this circle but otehr than that, it's doesn't really prove you can ride safely on the streets.

this coming from a very experienced and good rider. he told me i made a good choice by registering for the MSF.

Has to be a way to do it. I doubt that no one has ever passed it on an SV650.

I dont believe what Im reading


If ya all think doing a U turn within a circle thats about 20 foot across with ya feet up is difficult and beyond the teachings to a new learner rider and too advanced a skill to know for a new rider, then Im glad Im ridng over here


Which ever the guy was that really tried hard to explain the concepts of slow speed turn/cornering by emphasizing the importance of puck what the front wheel is doing look where ya wanna go and you will be fine, he is the one that I wanna ride with

Im gettin scared, we have a person who has gone out and bought a hypersport for a 1st bike and cant make a simple slow turn and the mere thought of a U turn is an impossibility....I mean WTF am I missing here ????

VX im not flaming you here dood, Im honestly scared for ya safety.

The only way to learn to ride is to ride and ride and ride and ride, and then there will always be doods who will out ride you no matter what bike ya buy and how good you are, get over it and start where we all started with the basics that a lot of guys on here are sharing with you.


The golden rule always always always look where ya wanna go, forget the bike look as far through the corner no matter speed ya doing slow or high and the bike will follow, DO not look at the front wheel....then the trick is to do that while watching all the other road users who are trying to kill you

swatter555 wrote:Let me jump in here...

First, lay off VX. He is obviously learning, there is no need to rub it in or down him for his choice of bike. Also, from what I have read, he is an eager learner, he will be a good rider.

What VX is running into is problems outlined in all of the "what new bike should I buy for my first bike" and "what makes a good starter bike" threads that are quite abundant in these forums. VX chose the hard and most likely expensive and painful way to get these fundamentals down.

swatter555 wrote: Now about the CA DMV test: Unless you have taken the CA test you dont have the right to insult VX. The CA is very hard for beginners riding top heavy bikes.

So top heavy bikes are difficult to take the test on? Almost as if it requires a higher level of skill to ride them? And if you can't prove you have the required skills, you don't pass? Doesn't sound like a problem to me.

swatter555 wrote: I practiced on the course for hours, it was not easy at all. I also dropped my bike on the course, and know many who have. VX is right, the DMV test really isnt a good test. Bikes with a lower center of gravity surely have an easier time with it, but the test shouldnt be contengent upon the bike you own. I would bet 100 bucks that half of the people giving VX trouble would also fail the test the first time on a top heavy bike.

I would take that bet. I make a point to practice low-speed manueovers on my bikes once a week or so. Take a nice canyon-carving ride to an empty state park parking lot and throw down some tennis balls cut in half. I practice full-lock circles at low speeds, figure eights, going as slow as possible in a straight line, etc... It's basic skills like these that provide a better understanding of how a bike works and improves your skillset for all types of riding.

swatter555 wrote: My only point is that the test is a poor one. The level of difficulty between the MSF course and the DMV test is not even close. If both are ways to get a license, then why are the difficulty levels so different?

In my MSF BRC, we did everything the DOL test required. It was easy, in majority, from the instruction we received, not the bikes.

swatter555 wrote:---------------
"I've always seen it as a test to see if a rider posesses the skillset to handle a motorcycle on public roads up to about 25 MPH. Every rider I've personally met that complained about the test was a sub-par rider at all speeds.

Acquiring the skills and proper techniques for passing the DMV test provides a solid foundation for controlling your motorcycle at all speeds. Simple as that."
----------------

I dont agree. Of course new riders are "sub-par" riders... duh.

I apologize, I meant riders that had problems with the course years ago that are still lacking the skills.

swatter555 wrote: The test should be more along the lines of the MSF test, otherwise it doesnt make alot of sense. Riders do need to learn the skills, but not be forced to take a test that requires hours of practice and might entail damaging your bike.

Hours of practice are needed for building a skill base to which proficient street riding requires.

swatter555 wrote: Having said that, of course slow speed manuevering is important. I personally practiced my butt off and still do on occasion. Being able to perform slow, tight turns in a crowded parking lot is absolutely essential. It just takes time and practice.

It does take time and practice. More so on bikes that those kinds of manuevers are difficult to perform.

ninja79 wrote:let me just chime in here.

The dmv circle is approximately 20 feet in diameter. All of you badmouthing Vermilion: I'd like to see you make it on a sportbike. Perhaps on a small cruiser you can do it. But I repeat: when I do it on sv650s, my hands *touch the gas tank* as I turn the front wheel all the way.

Sounds like it's at full lock. That's a good thing, it shows you know what your bike can do and you are in control, making the bike work for you.

ninja79 wrote:lWhile I was there, another guy & his girlfriend were practicing on a little dirtbke (yamaha 125l). I actually borrowed the bike from them and was able to make a few clockwise circles. *That* is what you need to pass the dmv test. But I fail to see how that teaches me how to ride *my* bike.

Balance, the fact you will go where your chin is pointing, knowing how your bike handles - these are all things you should know for riding your bike.

ninja79 wrote:lI have already taken MSF course in Toronto. There is *no comparison* between it and the dmv bullshit. The exercises you have to do on the MSF are a lot more balanced, with slow speed sharp turns as well as high speed manuevers (emergency stop, emergency swerve, boomerang, etc.) Those things you are actually going to use on the road every day.

As I said before, my BRC did all the drills the DOL test requires. Perhaps the courses differ?

ninja79 wrote:lSo far I don't see how it is physically possible to make that circle, nor what is the point of that exercise. Perhaps on a cruiser it would be easier -- at least the handlebars wouldn't hit the gas tank as you try to turn.

I have yet to see a bike where, at full lock, the handlebars actually touch a part on the bike. You hands may be extremely close to the tank and bars, but if that is a problem, use more lean angle and get your butt waaaaay out of the saddle. More leaning, slightly less steering input.