Total Motorcycle Community Forums

oldnslo wrote:Evidently the guy knew the possible ramifications of not wearing a helmet, choosing not to wear one because it wasn't dictated by law, and "it feels more free" to go without.

I see no reason to feel sympathetic toward him--he accepted the risk, and by doing so tacitly approved any possible outcome of his action.

EXACTLY!
+1

Andrew13 wrote: The third is to reduce the cost society must bear for your actions.

This is the arguement I hear the most, and probably the easiest one to refute.

If the goal is to regulate personal behavior to reduce the costs to society, then why start with helmet laws? The number of head injured unhelmeted motorcyclists that are wards of the state, will be insignificant when you look at the costs of other types of behavior.

Without having to dredge up statistics, I think it would be safe to say that heart disease, alcohol related problems and AIDs all incure a much greater cost to society than unhelmeted motorcyclists. If you support regulation for motorcyclists, would you also support regulation on what types of foods you could eat, your consumption of alcohol or even how you conduct your sex life? Is it really up to some government entity to make all of your personal risk evaluations for you "for the good of society"?

If you live under a strict authoritarian government, like North Korea, most of your personal decisions are made for you, for the good of the state. That's not really the type of government most of us would like to live under. Personal freedom (where it does not imping on someone else's freedom) is (was) a basic tenet of our democracy in the U.S. I don't support any law that erodes that concept.

BTW - I wear a helmet about 99% of the time I ride.

flynrider wrote:

Andrew13 wrote: The third is to reduce the cost society must bear for your actions.

This is the arguement I hear the most, and probably the easiest one to refute.

If the goal is to regulate personal behavior to reduce the costs to society, then why start with helmet laws? The number of head injured unhelmeted motorcyclists that are wards of the state, will be insignificant when you look at the costs of other types of behavior.

Without having to dredge up statistics, I think it would be safe to say that heart disease, alcohol related problems and AIDs all incure a much greater cost to society than unhelmeted motorcyclists. If you support regulation for motorcyclists, would you also support regulation on what types of foods you could eat, your consumption of alcohol or even how you conduct your sex life? Is it really up to some government entity to make all of your personal risk evaluations for you "for the good of society"?

BTW - I wear a helmet about 99% of the time I ride.

Heh. To refute your refutation these problems don't compete for resources. Passing a helmet law in no way stops AIDS research or prevents the state from passing a drunk driving law.

Incidently, every single example you provide is in fact regulated in this country. The food you eat is regulated, that's what the FDA is for. Plenty of states and localities regulate alcohol, from dry sundays to 3.2 beer to mandatory bar closing times. And permissible sex acts are regulated in (off the top of my head) Texas, and the military.

Do helmet laws really offend you more than any of the rest of those laws?

In general I'm against regulations, including some of the ones I cite, but Helmet laws are tricky. Squids will (generally) grow up to be decent people, given the chance. We were all stupid kids once. I'm for seatbelt laws too, even though my mother is alive right now because she wasn't wearing one in one accident. (She got tossed into the passenger seat then the moter went through the drivers seat.) Why? Becuase one freak accident does not change the fact that in 99% of all accidents you're better off wearing one.

Ha. I'm watching 2 wheel tuesday and Greg White just offered to give Ben any top of the line helmet he wants.

ZooTech wrote:Sell your bike. It's the only prudent and ethical thing to do.

Heh... OK! Getting hit in the face while doing 70mph and having a welt the size of a nickel would change your mind. It doesn't happen all the time and I will continue to wear a 1/2 helmet but if something larger smacked into your face like a rock from under a truck doing 70mph are you sure you could hold your bike safely in your lane?

earwig wrote:

ZooTech wrote:Sell your bike. It's the only prudent and ethical thing to do.

Heh... OK! Getting hit in the face while doing 70mph and having a welt the size of a nickel would change your mind. It doesn't happen all the time and I will continue to wear a 1/2 helmet but if something larger smacked into your face like a rock from under a truck doing 70mph are you sure you could hold your bike safely in your lane?

Done and done.

I ride sans helmet most of the time, remember? And I have no windshield. I have endured bugs, rocks, and even chunks of shredded semi tires smacking me in the face, sometimes drawing blood. I am no stranger to foreign objects entering one of my eyes causing me to close it until I can pull over. And no, I have yet to lose control of the bike or even veer from my line because of it. I'm not accounting for you or what happened to you, so this isn't an attack, just an answer to your hypothetical.

Hey Meanie... Do you think that wearing a seatbelt and helmet make sense? Do you believe that seatbelts and helmets save lives? It's sad that laws have to be made to protect us from ourselves. Do you have any loved ones or family? What happens when you die and your family and friends are left to grieve because you were too thick headed to protect yourself? Also, remember driving a car or motorcycle is NOT a right, it's a PRIVILEGE, and its given to you by the state.

ZooTech wrote:

earwig wrote:

ZooTech wrote:Sell your bike. It's the only prudent and ethical thing to do.

Heh... OK! Getting hit in the face while doing 70mph and having a welt the size of a nickel would change your mind. It doesn't happen all the time and I will continue to wear a 1/2 helmet but if something larger smacked into your face like a rock from under a truck doing 70mph are you sure you could hold your bike safely in your lane?

Done and done.

I ride sans helmet most of the time, remember? And I have no windshield. I have endured bugs, rocks, and even chunks of shredded semi tires smacking me in the face, sometimes drawing blood. I am no stranger to foreign objects entering one of my eyes causing me to close it until I can pull over. And no, I have yet to lose control of the bike or even veer from my line because of it. I'm not accounting for you or what happened to you, so this isn't an attack, just an answer to your hypothetical.

Maybe you've just built of a facial callous? Maybe us wimpy dudes don't want to have foreign things entering our face? *prod prod*

ZooTech wrote:Done and done.

<sarcasm>Whoa! You are hardcore!</sarcasm> I am not saying I lose control of my bike all the time but if you felt this sting... you would understand

earwig wrote:It's sad that laws have to be made to protect us from ourselves.

They don't, and shouldn't, that's the point. Laws for protecting minors, yes. Laws for people eligible to go to war, no.

DieMonkeys wrote:Maybe you've just built of a facial callous? Maybe us wimpy dudes don't want to have foreign things entering our face? *prod prod*

Not sure what you're fishing for, but I'm not biting. He asked how I'd like to experience what he did and I told him I already had. Not bragging, just bringing you up to speed. Yes, crap hurts at those speeds. No, I've never veered into another lane as a result. Sorry to disappoint.

ZooTech wrote:

earwig wrote:It's sad that laws have to be made to protect us from ourselves.

They don't, and shouldn't, that's the point. Laws for protecting minors, yes. Laws for people eligible to go to war, no.

DieMonkeys wrote:Maybe you've just built of a facial callous? Maybe us wimpy dudes don't want to have foreign things entering our face? *prod prod*

Not sure what you're fishing for, but I'm not biting. He asked how I'd like to experience what he did and I told him I already had. Not bragging, just bringing you up to speed. Yes, "crumb" hurts at those speeds. No, I've never veered into another lane as a result. Sorry to disappoint.

Oh, just poking at yah for fun. I agree with the fact that it's your decision to wear a helmet or not and that you accept the consequences, just like you accept that by not wearing protection you may get a disease or father a child, or that by eating nothing but McDonald's eventually your heart will turn into a slab of butter, etc.