9/11/2001

[kali]

Faithful service and pride...but for what? Duty and honor? for what?? Why are we in Iraq? Where are the weapons of mass destruction???

I did not mean to imply that our military is a pack of mindless killers, but I am very surprised that they continue to fight an endless war when it is obvious of the Bush administration's intentions. Or maybe they have no idea of such war crimes? Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11 and posed no threat to the American public. It's sad we haven't even caught Osama Bin Laden. Maybe because the Bush family has major ties with the Bin Laden family with their oil business....but hey, what do I know??

But I understand pulling out of Iraq immediately is much easier said than done. It's all a big, disastrous mess. And my best guess is that Bush will leave this conflict hanging in the white house for our next president to clean up.

If you're asking "for what"?, then you're not even close to understanding. Military service, contrary to idiotic belief, is not based on Iraq. So, pull that from your argument right there.

No one said anything about mindless killers, so why is that on your mind?

I can't speak for Bush, his administration or his connection to anyone. I don't know him, you don't either. Where do you get your "info"?

As for leaving conflicts for future administrations to clean up, Bin Laden and Bill Clinton ring a bell?

yeah everyone assumes it was George Bush's fault for the 9/11 but in reality it was Clintons fault. Just like the economy was starting a downhill slide during clintons rain not bush's. It just happened to get really bad and bottom out during bush administration. Dont worry I am sure we will have a women president next and then all hell will break loose. Then everyone will blame it on bush just because they dont like him and they cant admit that maybe that certain women wasnt the right person for the job (note I am NOT saying women shouldnt be president only that the one running shouldnt be president).

Your grasp of history is so expansive as to go all the way back to the Clinton era. Are you MENSA?

[kali]

i'm currently in the navy and going on tour in Afghanistan. I know we all hate politicians, don't lie, we do. What happens, happens, I just want my homefront to be behind me all the way, even if politicians are a-holes and do stupid things. All we want as soldiers/saliors is knowing that our own people back us up. I joined for 6 years and that's all i'm doing but i'm proud to be a veteran and serve my country through good and bad, someone has to. I have great respect for my brothers and sisters doing it now and those still doing it far after I leave. Yeah, life sucks being in the military a lot, but I will NEVER forget the awesome experiences and the great people I've met; not to mention all the crazy good countries I've been too being in the navy.

Well we don't. And that is what America is about. Goose stepping to the commander is for nazis'.

Get drunk, see the world, were a condom, keep your head down, don't kill anyone that isn't trying to kill you, and get home safe so you can ride and enjoy life.

[kali]

I can't stand the politicians that put our service men & women at risk, or the ones that put US service men & women at risk. I can understand the necessity at times, but the current conflict in Iraq is pushing it, as is Afghanistan. Don't get me wrong, I support the troops with all my heart. I just don't see why they have to be fighting someone else's war again.

No reason at all for Canadians, who have everything they need in the way of resources and freedom to have whatever they want, to be dieing in Afganistan. Every death there is a waste and a crime.

[Ninja Geoff]

Nice guys, really. Real nice. Of all the threads to start "procreating" fighting.

[scan]

Nice guys, really. Real nice. Of all the threads to start "procreating" fighting.

Here it is though - you brought up what is a sore subject in one way or another for a lot of people. Some people keep their mouths shut about it, and stay out of trouble by not getting into it, but everyone I ever met has an opinion on the topic. Most of the people I know are very mad at the government and the President for what is going on in Iraq. These are educated people, who do know the history of this country. I have rarely met a person in my circle that supports this action. But I also know that they and I rarely bring this topic up, nor would we normally stir up those with strong feeling about family or friends overseas.

But for the record, my brother-in-law (Loonette's brother) is in Afghanistan. He is a high level Sargent in the army. He is proud to be a soldier and proud to be an American. He has done many tours of duty and he is always interested in one mission - helping people. He wants to see people get the help they need. I love him, and I support him in his role as soldier, but I still think he should be doing his work somewhere else. But he does his job, because he took an oath, and as most military people, is sworn to get behind the job they are tasked to do.

Again, thank God for them. And pray for God to guide our leaders in the direction that will actually help us all.

So it might seem sort of tasteless to talk about so many things in such a debating and argumentative format when all you meant to do was cause a tribute to these lost soles, in reality the topic strikes a chord for many. We all know it is still hard to understand why so many had to die, and we still cannot be fully healed because there is no way to fix what was done. I feel bad for George Bush in a way - he had to make some sort of show of force - take some sort of action - and I think he did the best he could at the time. What I don't forgive him for though, is not backing out when he admitted he was wrong - and he did admit he was wrong.

[kali]

Thanks Scan for tolerating my post. I know TM would rather avoid controversy here. I've said my piece and will leave it at that.

To Ninja Geoff and others who support the troops, I do understand your feelings and meaning. Policy makers at the top fully understand how to use support for the troops to deflect war criticism.

Consider this,

I am too high-born to be propertied,
To be a secondary at control,
Or useful serving-man and instrument
To any sovereign state throughout the world.

The mass of men serve the State thus, not as men mainly, but as machines, with their bodies. They are the standing army, and the militia, gaolers, constables, posse comitatus, etc. In most cases there is no free exercise whatever of the judgment or of the moral sense; but they put themselves on a level with wood and earth and stones; and wooden men can perhaps be manufactured that will serve the purpose as well. Such command no more respect than men of straw or a lump of dirt.

"The mass of men lead lives of quiet desperation. What is called resignation is confirmed desperation. ... it is a characteristic of wisdom not to do desperate things."

-- Henry David Thoreau

[ofblong]

Thanks Scan for tolerating my post. I know TM would rather avoid controversy here. I've said my piece and will leave it at that.

To Ninja Geoff and others who support the troops, I do understand your feelings and meaning. Policy makers at the top fully understand how to use support for the troops to deflect war criticism.

Consider this,

I am too high-born to be propertied,
To be a secondary at control,
Or useful serving-man and instrument
To any sovereign state throughout the world.

The mass of men serve the State thus, not as men mainly, but as machines, with their bodies. They are the standing army, and the militia, gaolers, constables, posse comitatus, etc. In most cases there is no free exercise whatever of the judgment or of the moral sense; but they put themselves on a level with wood and earth and stones; and wooden men can perhaps be manufactured that will serve the purpose as well. Such command no more respect than men of straw or a lump of dirt.

"The mass of men lead lives of quiet desperation. What is called resignation is confirmed desperation. ... it is a characteristic of wisdom not to do desperate things."

-- Henry David Thoreau

I wont quote every one of your posts.

Yes I can only remember back to clinton because to me history/government were very very boring and I could give a rats arse about it back then. yeah I may have gotten A's in those classes in middle school/high school but i learned what I needed to to pass the class and then forgot it. Those class's were not memorable class's that I cared to remember what happened. I dont normally remember much of history until someone brings it up. I mean when reagan was put in office I was 2 years old. I would have no idea what reagan did in office during that time. I do remember seeing him get shot on tv but thats about it.

[jonnythan]

Yes I can only remember back to clinton because to me history/government were very very boring and I could give a rats arse about it back then. yeah I may have gotten A's in those classes in middle school/high school but i learned what I needed to to pass the class and then forgot it. Those class's were not memorable class's that I cared to remember what happened. I dont normally remember much of history until someone brings it up. I mean when reagan was put in office I was 2 years old. I would have no idea what reagan did in office during that time. I do remember seeing him get shot on tv but thats about it.

Word to the wise:

If you don't know anything about history and politics, stay out of arguments involving them.

[Shorts]

Wow, 67 posts and only 5 are motorcycle related.

Well we don't. And that is what America is about. Goose stepping to the commander is for nazis'.

Looks like Godwin's Law has struck:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin's_law

http://www.killfile.org/~tskirvin/faqs/godwin.html

[flynrider]

Wow, 67 posts and only 5 are motorcycle related.

To be fair, this is the Soap Box forum. The place to post non-motorcycle related items.