Gas prices and Hummers

Message

#51 Unread post by **ZooTech** » Sat Sep 03, 2005 2:51 am

Mothman, we all know you mean no harm. And you're welcome to express your convictions and your opinion on any topic you choose. But don't run off if you run into a few who disagree. If I did that I would have left after day one!

The549 · #52 Unread post by **The549** » Sat Sep 03, 2005 4:03 am

ZooTech wrote:
The549 wrote:
ZooTech wrote:
The549 wrote: Are you talking about me??
No.
Damn.

edit - I have a reply at the bottom of the last page I know you're dying to read, zoo.
Rather...

Look, if ten of us were stuck on a desert island, with only a 55 gallon drum of water to share, and the Hummer owner in our group decided to take a bath in the water I'd be with you on the "misuse of resources" charge. However, I have yet to see a station close its doors, shut off its pumps, or lose patronage due to this environmental catastrophe, so let the poor over-worked and under-vacationed Hummer owner blow off some steam in a mudhole somewhere, okay? Who cares? The thumbs-down gesture is nothing more than a holier-than-thou attitude rearing its ugly head.

First of all, being new to this forum, I can say that I'm really impressed just by the fact that you remain very civil in the disagreement....maturity is usually lacking in a big way on the net.

But the other factor is pollution, and environmental degradation. These are things that directly affect all of us and is largely the result of the way America is set up (in most places you have to have cars, unlike...say Japan) but also the lifestyle - you see it in what people drive, and the way people drive. Many have a highly deserving attitude. They, similar to what you're saying, don't want their "freedoms" to be taken away, even if they're polluting unnecesarily.

As I see it, the government decides what is allowed on their roads. That and the fact that pollution affects all of us leads me to believe that something should be done about the problem. And more than what's been done recently - to remove emission cutting goals by our favorite president.

It's true that we're running out of oil. I disagree with those that don't push progress on the account that the economy and supply and demand will right everything - this website is a testament to that. I want to ride my motorcycle! But if the feds want the motorcycle I ride to be fuel efficient, that's fine with me. The bike I want gets 60-70 mpg, and with the same number of passengers as your average Ford excursion, I'll have much less of an issue with myself riding it.

Aquaduct · #53 Unread post by **Aquaduct** » Sat Sep 03, 2005 4:26 am

The549 wrote:They, similar to what you're saying, don't want their "freedoms" to be taken away, even if they're polluting unnecesarily.

You've got to be real careful here in your entirely arbitrary and personal definition of "necessary". Who makes that call? You? Based on what? That you don't like the attitude of other drivers?

Because that can go for a lot of things. I personally know people who think motorcycles should be banned because of the "unecessary" risks that we take and the supposed attendant "cost to society". Same logic as yours. Same outcome.

If everybody has thier way banning all the stuff that they personally don't believe is "necessary" (and, of course, that they don't understand), we'll all be reconciled to living and working in cardboard boxes in the park with limits on how much we're supposed to breath.

The549 · #54 Unread post by **The549** » Sat Sep 03, 2005 4:50 am

My friend's dad has a large pickup. He is an independent contractor. Great. I also commuted to work in the Sacramento area, and there were so many large SUVs and gas hogs with one person in them, commuting. They pollute much more than necessary (and much more than a smal car or bike), which is a large reason that the air quality can actually be harmful for people working in the area.

Those SUVs are unnecessary 99% of the time. That means that for every 99 vehicles, only one is used for doing work that requires a large SUV. Hauling kids can be done in a minivan, moving your ice chest can be done in a car or wagon. An escalade is not needed for picking up your kid who sits in the middle of the middle seat. That's unnecessary.

You drving a motorcycle does not affect me. You (a theoretical you, not you you) killing yourself does not affect me. A bunch of you driving your escalades rather than a small vehicle DOES affect me, as it affects other people. You do not have the right to take away my ability to breathe, or even breathe well.

It's not about me wanting to outlaw what I personally think is unnecessary. I think me riding a motorcycle is unnecessary. But when something so unnessesary overlaps something that takes away a basic right of all people, it should only make the answer to the problem more obvious.

#55 Unread post by **ZooTech** » Sat Sep 03, 2005 5:02 am

Yes, but to reitterate someone else's point, where do you draw the line? Take the Amish for example (there are thousands of them where I live). They consider damn near everything we take for granted every day "unnecessary". Automobiles, electricity, modern conveniences...all of it unnecessary to their way of life. So, do we subscribe to their beliefs and rid ourselves of technology? Sure, there's probably a line somewhere, but part of living in a free-market society built around a democracy is giving each individual the freedom and the right to draw that line for themselves, and not having an oppressive government draw it for you. As an added bonus, you also get the freedom to gripe about others' choices in a public forum of your choosing!

Also, who are you to deam an SUV unnecessary? Before I bought my truck three months ago I had a 4.0 liter Ford Aerostar minivan. Now, anyone watching me pull into work in the morning would see me climb out of this two ton monster all by myself, and they could think or say the same thing you did..."Why does he need such a big vehicle all by himself?" But did they see me a half-hour earlier with three kids in the back, dropping them off at the sitter's house? Or over the weekend when I took my three plus my friend and her three to the skating rink (making a two-car trip unnecessary and actually saving gas!)? Or did they see me pick up my brand new washer and dryer from Home Depot with my three kids sitting in the middle row? Point is, people who buy SUV's actually do use them to capacity quite often. But usually it's about having the option to do so, rather than owning a small sedan and renting a truck every time something big comes along. That's why I ended up buying a Colorado crew-cab with a 4-banger and a 5-speed. Now I have decent fuel economy, I can haul all three kids plus one more, and I can haul any large incidentals that may come up. But, once again, my coworkers see me pull up in it alone every day.

mothman · #56 Unread post by **mothman** » Sat Sep 03, 2005 5:58 am

Home Depot delivers.

iwannadie · Sat Sep 03, 2005 6:44 am

gas stations are closing down here left and right because they have no gas. if a hummer pulls up before me and takes the last 30 gallons for their hummer cause they need to drive to the store and get grocerys on that tank of gas. ill be upset when my car or bike cant get gas because of that.

gas wont last forever the more we use it now the sooner it will be gone you cant deny that, oil is not a renable resource it will run out sooner than later. if you think it will last forever and we can use as much as we can now with no worries you need to wake up.

#58 Unread post by **ZooTech** » Sat Sep 03, 2005 10:28 am

mothman wrote:Home Depot delivers.

Not from Dublin, Ohio to Marysville, Ohio. Besides, if they delivered it I'd have to take time off work to wait for their "delivery window". Picking them up myself was no problem, and my van got better mileage than a huge box truck, too.

iwannadie wrote: gas wont last forever the more we use it now the sooner it will be gone you cant deny that, oil is not a renable resource it will run out sooner than later. if you think it will last forever and we can use as much as we can now with no worries you need to wake up.

Sorry, I don't buy it. If you're of the opinion that the earth is millions of years old maybe you buy into all that nonsense, but I for one do not.

NCRonB · #59 Unread post by **NCRonB** » Sat Sep 03, 2005 10:39 am

ZooTech wrote:We are not at a point of rationing gas ..... Like I said, 'round here in the Midwest it is business as usual.

As stated in the OP, here in NC, gas stations are running out of gas and the governor has asked us to conserve it. I won't judge a Hummer driver for doing what they need to do, but the attitude that too often accompanies gas guzzler owners is "screw everyone else; I want to, so I will". It's that attitude that bothers me.

#60 Unread post by **cb360** » Sat Sep 03, 2005 11:29 am

Zootech

Sorry, I don't buy it. If you're of the opinion that the earth is millions of years old maybe you buy into all that nonsense, but I for one do not.

Aw, man. Please don't tell me you think the earth is only a few thousand years old.