Total Motorcycle Community Forums

It still kinda confuses me though!

Try searching for "counter steering" on google. A particularly good article is hosted on Wikipedia.

While I appreciate your physics jflashg03, you are incorrect about someone leaning to the side having 0 effect.

Shifting the H vector by turning the wheel is definitely how we all steer and I don't disagree with that. BUT, it is possible to lean a bike over and turn at speed by simply shifting your weight to one side and turning the wheel in the normal direction of your turn without countersteering at all. You will be able to SLOWLY SLOWLY lean and turn this way, but definitely not turn nearly as fast as you would like to do any real maneuver.

And as to what Sev was saying, about an uncooperative passenger changing the steering significantly - it's all about the balance of gravity trying to make the bike tip over versus the force steering into the turn creates trying to make the bike tip the opposite way.

When the passenger is leaning the wrong way, the gravity force is much weaker at the same lean angle, so you have to lean even farther than normal to turn with the same radius.

This is called gyroscopic stiffness.
This is what causes the bike to stand up on its own at speed(20mph+). this is why shifting your weight will not lean the bike over at speed, because the wheel's gyro stiffness resists small disturbances(and yes, you leaning your behind over the side is a small disturbance no matter how much you weigh). the only way to lean a gyro is to shift the H vector(since the wheel will always stay perpendicular to it).

My Dad has been riding for 40+ years and NEVER heard of countersteering until THIS YEAR. Regardless of how complex the physics involved are or are not, the physical act of countersteering is so easy it's hardly noticeable. Kinda makes the "why" insignificant, yes?

That's like saying the sky is blue, and will always be blue, so why worry about WHY it's blue.

Sevulturus wrote:That's like saying the sky is blue, and will always be blue, so why worry about WHY it's blue.

Yeah, the color of the sky is roughly as insignificant to me as why one needs to countersteer a motorcycle. I don't believe I could care any less than I already do.

Yet you keep coming back, if the thread bothers you, don't read it. I for one am still enjoying it.

Shifting my weight still turns my bike. That's part of the reason you press down on the inside footpeg during a hard turn.

I don't practice the process of counter steering for safer riding. Some people do. They practice over and over so that if they ever have to avoid an object in the line of travel they can rapidly run around it. I tried one time and it felt like I was going to hit the road, and I had to quickly correct the front wheel to regain control. It works. Be careful when practicing it.

Sevulturus wrote:Yet you keep coming back, if the thread bothers you, don't read it.

Who said it bothers me? What bothers me is when the latest and greatest astrophysicist shows up and, after one week and three posts, decides to throw insults around about folks not understanding their brilliant thesis about countersteering. That becomes a huge turn-off, but is no less entertaining.

camthepyro:

Please read my post on this topic at another thread: archive/o_t__t_11829__start_50__index.html

They are wrong about low speeds. Countersteering happens at ALL speeds.

Here's a page explaining countersteering: http://www.vsa.cape.com/~wayg/mrep/csteer.htm