Posted: Thu May 18, 2006 7:55 am
mmmm coookies...now i'm hungry
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Question about 1000cc or very powerful bikes as starters
Page 7 of 14
Posted: Thu May 18, 2006 8:33 am
double stuffed oreos FTW!
Posted: Thu May 18, 2006 8:56 am
It's amazing how much you know about riding. After just passing the MSF course, not only are you an expert, but you have more than the combined experience of everyone who's been posting here. Amazing!
If you don't understand the concept of learning basic skills before hopping on a race replica (What everyone here has been trying to get across), there is nothing more we can do for you.
By the way, you'll never master a 1000 without first working your way up - and you'll certainly never master one on the street. Or maybe every single professional racer on the planet just has it backwards.
You'll be blasting by Rossi in a few weeks
If you don't understand the concept of learning basic skills before hopping on a race replica (What everyone here has been trying to get across), there is nothing more we can do for you.
By the way, you'll never master a 1000 without first working your way up - and you'll certainly never master one on the street. Or maybe every single professional racer on the planet just has it backwards.
You'll be blasting by Rossi in a few weeks
Posted: Thu May 18, 2006 9:13 am
[rant] to clarify, no one said-
"ride a 250 for a while and you'll instantly master the 1000"
what we said was-
"you are less likely to kill yourself on a 250 than a 1000 or 600, then once your experienced on the 250, you'll be less likely to kill yourself when you move up to a 500-600, then maybe get a 750-800, and finally a 1000"
no one here is going to recomend you start on a 1000
no one here is going to recomend you go straight from a 250 to a 1000
and no one here is going to be impressed by you starting out on a 1000 even if you dont wreck it. (ask Vermilion about that)
you asked our oppinion or for reasons why we think something- we answered- you disagree- so all of us are wrong/stupid/whatever.
[/rant]
"ride a 250 for a while and you'll instantly master the 1000"
what we said was-
"you are less likely to kill yourself on a 250 than a 1000 or 600, then once your experienced on the 250, you'll be less likely to kill yourself when you move up to a 500-600, then maybe get a 750-800, and finally a 1000"
no one here is going to recomend you start on a 1000
no one here is going to recomend you go straight from a 250 to a 1000
and no one here is going to be impressed by you starting out on a 1000 even if you dont wreck it. (ask Vermilion about that)
you asked our oppinion or for reasons why we think something- we answered- you disagree- so all of us are wrong/stupid/whatever.
[/rant]
Posted: Thu May 18, 2006 9:21 am
People on this forum are beyond conservative. According to this forum your a accident waiting to happen if you dont start on a 10hp bike. That is just plain wrong, wrong, wrong.
Having seen so many people learning on a Ninja 250 or a Ninja 500 nearly kill themselves in a parking lot, to me this leads to a different conclusion. Some people just shouldnt be on a bike, period. For whatever reason, some people just dont have the experience with a clutch or coordination to learn on ANY motorcycle without hurting themselves or wrecking the bike.
The first time I ever rode a bike it was a sportbike, a big and heavy Katana 600. I didnt wheelie, drive it into a parking block,hit a tree,drop it; I just simply rode away without a fuss. I simply understood how it operated.
To me the most important pre-reqs for learning are this:
1)A good attitude: You are responsible enough to realize you can be hurt or killed and how that would affect your family. People with the right attitude ride with this in mind. Way too many people who start out on a supersport 600 lack this most important requirement.
2)Lots of experience with a clutch.
3)Self control.
To me the choice of bike is the least important consideration, though it is very indicitive of the persons overall attitude. Take for instance a person who wants to learn on a ZX-10:
-This person is highly uneducated about MCs. This person has no idea, not even the slightest clue, how powerful such a bike truly is.
-This person is often surrounded by dumb friends who started on Hayabusas, some of which have already killed themselves.
-This person often cannot afford this insurance that comes along with having a liter bike, so they just never get any.
Unfortunately, I would bet this person would have a high chance of killing himself no matter what bike they choose. They simply dont have respect for themselves or MCs in general. Some people just act dumb, no cure available(except maybe life experience).
My point is that bike choice is not going to determine whether or not you safely learn how to ride. You will safely learn how to ride if you have the right attitude and the proper coordination. I think its that simple.
Having said that, I would never recommend anyone I personally know to get a liter bike to learn on. Even though bike choice is of lesser importance, it is still important.
If I knew someone and they meet the reqs I thought were important, I wouldnt have a problem with him/her getting a 600 supersport.
On the other hand, if they didnt meet the requirements, I would tell them not to ride at all.
Having seen so many people learning on a Ninja 250 or a Ninja 500 nearly kill themselves in a parking lot, to me this leads to a different conclusion. Some people just shouldnt be on a bike, period. For whatever reason, some people just dont have the experience with a clutch or coordination to learn on ANY motorcycle without hurting themselves or wrecking the bike.
The first time I ever rode a bike it was a sportbike, a big and heavy Katana 600. I didnt wheelie, drive it into a parking block,hit a tree,drop it; I just simply rode away without a fuss. I simply understood how it operated.
To me the most important pre-reqs for learning are this:
1)A good attitude: You are responsible enough to realize you can be hurt or killed and how that would affect your family. People with the right attitude ride with this in mind. Way too many people who start out on a supersport 600 lack this most important requirement.
2)Lots of experience with a clutch.
3)Self control.
To me the choice of bike is the least important consideration, though it is very indicitive of the persons overall attitude. Take for instance a person who wants to learn on a ZX-10:
-This person is highly uneducated about MCs. This person has no idea, not even the slightest clue, how powerful such a bike truly is.
-This person is often surrounded by dumb friends who started on Hayabusas, some of which have already killed themselves.
-This person often cannot afford this insurance that comes along with having a liter bike, so they just never get any.
Unfortunately, I would bet this person would have a high chance of killing himself no matter what bike they choose. They simply dont have respect for themselves or MCs in general. Some people just act dumb, no cure available(except maybe life experience).
My point is that bike choice is not going to determine whether or not you safely learn how to ride. You will safely learn how to ride if you have the right attitude and the proper coordination. I think its that simple.
Having said that, I would never recommend anyone I personally know to get a liter bike to learn on. Even though bike choice is of lesser importance, it is still important.
If I knew someone and they meet the reqs I thought were important, I wouldnt have a problem with him/her getting a 600 supersport.
On the other hand, if they didnt meet the requirements, I would tell them not to ride at all.
Posted: Thu May 18, 2006 9:43 am
Never heard anyone say a word about 10HP. Usually it is more like 50.
And... "Experience with a clutch"? WTF are you talking about? I take it you had a hard time learning to slip the clutch? Or what? Not that I really care, but it doesn't seem like it should be #2 on anybody's list of prerequisites for riding.
And... "Experience with a clutch"? WTF are you talking about? I take it you had a hard time learning to slip the clutch? Or what? Not that I really care, but it doesn't seem like it should be #2 on anybody's list of prerequisites for riding.
Posted: Thu May 18, 2006 10:05 am
If your going to dismiss my arguments, at least try and do it intelligently.dieziege wrote:Never heard anyone say a word about 10HP. Usually it is more like 50.
And... "Experience with a clutch"? WTF are you talking about? I take it you had a hard time learning to slip the clutch? Or what? Not that I really care, but it doesn't seem like it should be #2 on anybody's list of prerequisites for riding.
Posted: Thu May 18, 2006 10:14 am
I wanna be mature about this so I'll try to keep it that way, but it does seem some think anything other then a pedal bike is too much to start out on.
Ohters are just plain ignorant.
Ohters are just plain ignorant.
Posted: Thu May 18, 2006 10:20 am
Not dismissing your opinions (your post didn't seem like an argument to me). Just puzzled as to how "clutch" got to the #2 slot. Frankly, operating a clutch is just a manual skill that takes a little practice. It isn't significant to a person's ability to ride (or learn to ride) a motorcycle.
I've got well over half a million miles in cars and trucks with manual transmissions... a lot of clutch pedal work there... and I saw people in the MSF class that had ZERO stick shift time doing as well on the motorcycle clutch as I did. Said another way, we all did fine. NOBODY had clutch problems. One guy had leaning problems. Another guy had target fixation problems. One girl had "it's the end of a long day and I'm making silly mistakes 'cause I'm tired" problems. Nobody had clutch problems. So I just don't see where belongs at #2 on the prerequisites list.
Though, if you want to couch it as an argument...
"good attitude"... yeah, true, fluff though... people should always have a "good attitude" as they learn new skills.
"clutch experience"... about as relevant as "experience in the clutch" IMO
"Self control" .... irrelevant... the problem isn't that people are deciding to go too fast. The problem is that typos always happen, but they cost more when the wrong letter can smash fairings unless you are damned quick to spot them and hit the backspace key.
I've got well over half a million miles in cars and trucks with manual transmissions... a lot of clutch pedal work there... and I saw people in the MSF class that had ZERO stick shift time doing as well on the motorcycle clutch as I did. Said another way, we all did fine. NOBODY had clutch problems. One guy had leaning problems. Another guy had target fixation problems. One girl had "it's the end of a long day and I'm making silly mistakes 'cause I'm tired" problems. Nobody had clutch problems. So I just don't see where belongs at #2 on the prerequisites list.
Though, if you want to couch it as an argument...
"good attitude"... yeah, true, fluff though... people should always have a "good attitude" as they learn new skills.
"clutch experience"... about as relevant as "experience in the clutch" IMO
"Self control" .... irrelevant... the problem isn't that people are deciding to go too fast. The problem is that typos always happen, but they cost more when the wrong letter can smash fairings unless you are damned quick to spot them and hit the backspace key.
Posted: Thu May 18, 2006 10:22 am
I can assure you my 450cc 42hp nighthawk 450 is definitely not a peddle bike. That goes FAST, but until you actually ride one, you won't know that. You'll keep assuming anything less than a 600 sport bike is slow. It's not. Predictable? Yes. Slow? Absolutely not. I can get up to 60 in under 5 seconds. That is pretty damn fast.
But say you're on a 600cc supersport, just accelerating 9000 rpm (we'll assume you're about to shift) and you hit a pothole. Now as you hit the pothole, you try to keep the throttle steady, but you still accidently twist it a fraction of an inch. Now you at 12000 rpm, right in the peak powerband for that bike, all of the sudden you bike is putting out it's max horsepower, and you're flying down the road, about to rear end the car in front of you. Now you realize you're about to rear end this person, so you panic and slam on the brakes, locking the rear tire, and lowsiding. That might seem complicated, but it would be easy to do on a sport bike. If you're being completely objective, you'll realize the point, if you're being subjective like most people, you ignore it and try to rationalize the reason you want to get that sport bike.
But say you're on a 600cc supersport, just accelerating 9000 rpm (we'll assume you're about to shift) and you hit a pothole. Now as you hit the pothole, you try to keep the throttle steady, but you still accidently twist it a fraction of an inch. Now you at 12000 rpm, right in the peak powerband for that bike, all of the sudden you bike is putting out it's max horsepower, and you're flying down the road, about to rear end the car in front of you. Now you realize you're about to rear end this person, so you panic and slam on the brakes, locking the rear tire, and lowsiding. That might seem complicated, but it would be easy to do on a sport bike. If you're being completely objective, you'll realize the point, if you're being subjective like most people, you ignore it and try to rationalize the reason you want to get that sport bike.