Posted: Mon Aug 28, 2006 8:59 am
Bear with me on this one for a moment. It will seem unrelated, but this thread reminds me of how confusing it is sharing a planet with each other -
Here is what I've observed - and I don't quite understand it myself - so maybe someone will have insight. I've met a lot of people in my life, and very few have been total jerks. I have met some jerks, but basically cool people or very cool people out-weigh the jerks, at least so it seems to me. But I may be living a rare life - but I doubt that's true. I've met many people from the Middle East, and I can say I've never met one that seemed like a jerk - as a matter of fact they seem like they have a much more clear focus on their families and are much less selfish. I do know some American families focused on family, but not so many.
So - I've also observed that people (people in general) drive like jerks in cars, are rude and careless many times. I've also seen people ignore each other in mass gathering places - like a mall or a grocery store. People rarely smile at each other, or say hello. Everyone is in there own world, and are jarred to anger almost when that shield of personal space, or attention is poked or prodded. I had a lady at a store almost jump out of her skin when she and I were both reaching for butter in the grocery store. She had trouble reacting to me and even speaking. It is not the only time I've seen this scared behavior in interacting with fellow white people (I mention white to make clear there was little else for her to pre-judge).
I also hear people say they wish people were friendlier. I have also heard some people who like to be left alone, and don't want to chit chat with strangers, but they are actually in the minority of those I've met. So I take this to mean that most people want to be friendly with each other, but do not do so. I've seen many times where someone who looks to be angry, grumpy, or sad will perk up and be quite friendly if you say hello - in the right environment. Like I said, there are times when people are alarmed by conversations or interaction.
Here at TMW I've seen behavior that is unique too. A lack of fear in blasting out opinions which are sometimes hurtful, angry, and with little concern for individuals - other than for themselves, or the group they belong to (helmet wearers, US citizens, squids, and the like). This is typical to being behind a keyboard and having little concern for how you make someone else feel. At least here we have a handful of people who are mindful of this and are at least willing to back off enough to understand differences.
So this brings me to group behavior, which is generally not very representative of individuals. Often chaos is controlled by a ruling group of some sort. The government of the US does not represent the opinions of everyone here. When I've been abroad and met people from other countries I often hear them state "They love Americans, but hate their government", or something to that effect. If they say they hate America or Americans, I've found they are not talking about the individuals, and seem to understand the distinction. That is to the point of what I'm talking about here. We have a great free land, and you can express yourself, but ultimately there is a ruling class that does not do what the "people" wish often and actually operate in self-interest. "The system" does what it can get away with through the clucky process that is government.
What cracks me up is the people who think we should stand behind the president, just because he was voted in by a majority. First, he was voted in by more than half the Electoral College (a weak old concept in my estimation) in reality, and the popular vote was not over-whelmingly in his favor - but it was in his favor. He won fair and square by the rules, so not a complaint from me on that point. But I saw an avatar here, which said it well - it had a picture of Bush and under it said "Next time you'll vote, hippie". This gets to the point that many who objected felt the system didn't work and didn't vote. Their fault really, but it does illustrate that the population of this country is not truly represented by its government. If media can motivate people (through inaccurate information, or otherwise) the swing of democracy can be changed - simply by persuasion without facts.
Then we come to the "if you don't like it, you can change it" mentality. Humorous really. If you don't agree with the policies of this president it most certainly does not mean that if you fight that policy you will make a difference. In reality everyone is allowed to voice their opinion, but to exact change is not so easy. And under those terms the winners of a vote issue have the right to say "shut up" to the losers. You lose, so your population's opinion is invalid.
Not to mention that we have different religions in the mix and each person has their own version of faith and belief. Two Catholics do not always agree, and they are in a very rigid Christian faith. We have been perceived in two ways in the country and the do not relate well to each other. On one hand we are a place where any religion can exist and be practiced. On the other hand we are Christian heavy and they view this as the foundation of the country, and beyond putting up with other religion being here, there is no need keep that personal. We have days off for Christian holidays, have Christian icons mixed in with our government and laws, and a president that proudly states his faith as guiding him. There truly is little separation of church and state anymore.
One more thing - supporting the troops having anything to do with supporting a war or the president. Why are those thing locked together. I do not support the guy I didn't vote for, and I didn't ever think the war was valid from day one. So, I respect the men and women who signed to do duty defending this country and the constitution. I also despise deserters - those who are in the military that turn their back on what they swore to due. I have a brother-in-law who has been in Iraq. I still think what our policy has done with these honorable men is sickening. Sorry if all that can't align in some people brains. I support the troops, not their leader or plan. I never took the oath that they did.
So why can't we all just get along? Pfffttt. I don't know how any of us can get along at all. The fact that someone gets these collections of monkeys (I'm referring to humans in general) in any form of orders is amazing. The idea of "no rules" is not realistic. Someone will always take charge - if you start with anarchy someone is bound to start organizing something - that is where anarchy would thus end.
Iraq had a ruling class that was unfair, but how many of those governments are there in the world? We had other places we needed to do this job sooner, but Iraq was an easy scapegoat. You have to see Bush had this in mind before 911 even - he was documented as trying to figure out how to address this issue of controlling Iraq. They were a weak country with no "real" military. Now it is a terrorist state - which is our fault. It certainly was a low terrorist area - due to a powerful evil leader and monarchy. Truthfully, even with the deaths and evil behavior previously seen there, there were far less innocent people killed before we showed up to smash the government. For more are being negatively effected by these actions then before the war, and there is not end in sight. And we still have no better control on terrorism. We have people who now have a world class training center for terrorist with our solders as living decoys. And we are so scared to death ourselves that we drag people from their homes to try to find the "evil doers". Sheesh.
I don't know. I had a point when I started, but though the mental athletics required by these topics, it wore me out. Should Iran have nukes? I don't know how anyone can even imagine these questions. Frame of reference makes all the difference. That goes for this board, for the US, for helmet use, and terrorism. I know why Iran thinks they should be able to have them, and I don't see how we can complain since we allow ourselves this luxury. Yes, they do some crazy stuff that doesn't respect life like we do, but we still are not free from sin ourselves. I would never attempt to compare Iran to the US as an equal comparison, but I do know we are not in the position to tell anyone else what to do.
Utopia was mentioned earlier. No such place could exist. No matter what things make your Utopia, you're probably peeing in someone else's sandbox. Many people hate the words politically correct, and tolerance, but sometimes there is no substitute for understanding someone you don't agree with's point of view.
Here is what I've observed - and I don't quite understand it myself - so maybe someone will have insight. I've met a lot of people in my life, and very few have been total jerks. I have met some jerks, but basically cool people or very cool people out-weigh the jerks, at least so it seems to me. But I may be living a rare life - but I doubt that's true. I've met many people from the Middle East, and I can say I've never met one that seemed like a jerk - as a matter of fact they seem like they have a much more clear focus on their families and are much less selfish. I do know some American families focused on family, but not so many.
So - I've also observed that people (people in general) drive like jerks in cars, are rude and careless many times. I've also seen people ignore each other in mass gathering places - like a mall or a grocery store. People rarely smile at each other, or say hello. Everyone is in there own world, and are jarred to anger almost when that shield of personal space, or attention is poked or prodded. I had a lady at a store almost jump out of her skin when she and I were both reaching for butter in the grocery store. She had trouble reacting to me and even speaking. It is not the only time I've seen this scared behavior in interacting with fellow white people (I mention white to make clear there was little else for her to pre-judge).
I also hear people say they wish people were friendlier. I have also heard some people who like to be left alone, and don't want to chit chat with strangers, but they are actually in the minority of those I've met. So I take this to mean that most people want to be friendly with each other, but do not do so. I've seen many times where someone who looks to be angry, grumpy, or sad will perk up and be quite friendly if you say hello - in the right environment. Like I said, there are times when people are alarmed by conversations or interaction.
Here at TMW I've seen behavior that is unique too. A lack of fear in blasting out opinions which are sometimes hurtful, angry, and with little concern for individuals - other than for themselves, or the group they belong to (helmet wearers, US citizens, squids, and the like). This is typical to being behind a keyboard and having little concern for how you make someone else feel. At least here we have a handful of people who are mindful of this and are at least willing to back off enough to understand differences.
So this brings me to group behavior, which is generally not very representative of individuals. Often chaos is controlled by a ruling group of some sort. The government of the US does not represent the opinions of everyone here. When I've been abroad and met people from other countries I often hear them state "They love Americans, but hate their government", or something to that effect. If they say they hate America or Americans, I've found they are not talking about the individuals, and seem to understand the distinction. That is to the point of what I'm talking about here. We have a great free land, and you can express yourself, but ultimately there is a ruling class that does not do what the "people" wish often and actually operate in self-interest. "The system" does what it can get away with through the clucky process that is government.
What cracks me up is the people who think we should stand behind the president, just because he was voted in by a majority. First, he was voted in by more than half the Electoral College (a weak old concept in my estimation) in reality, and the popular vote was not over-whelmingly in his favor - but it was in his favor. He won fair and square by the rules, so not a complaint from me on that point. But I saw an avatar here, which said it well - it had a picture of Bush and under it said "Next time you'll vote, hippie". This gets to the point that many who objected felt the system didn't work and didn't vote. Their fault really, but it does illustrate that the population of this country is not truly represented by its government. If media can motivate people (through inaccurate information, or otherwise) the swing of democracy can be changed - simply by persuasion without facts.
Then we come to the "if you don't like it, you can change it" mentality. Humorous really. If you don't agree with the policies of this president it most certainly does not mean that if you fight that policy you will make a difference. In reality everyone is allowed to voice their opinion, but to exact change is not so easy. And under those terms the winners of a vote issue have the right to say "shut up" to the losers. You lose, so your population's opinion is invalid.
Not to mention that we have different religions in the mix and each person has their own version of faith and belief. Two Catholics do not always agree, and they are in a very rigid Christian faith. We have been perceived in two ways in the country and the do not relate well to each other. On one hand we are a place where any religion can exist and be practiced. On the other hand we are Christian heavy and they view this as the foundation of the country, and beyond putting up with other religion being here, there is no need keep that personal. We have days off for Christian holidays, have Christian icons mixed in with our government and laws, and a president that proudly states his faith as guiding him. There truly is little separation of church and state anymore.
One more thing - supporting the troops having anything to do with supporting a war or the president. Why are those thing locked together. I do not support the guy I didn't vote for, and I didn't ever think the war was valid from day one. So, I respect the men and women who signed to do duty defending this country and the constitution. I also despise deserters - those who are in the military that turn their back on what they swore to due. I have a brother-in-law who has been in Iraq. I still think what our policy has done with these honorable men is sickening. Sorry if all that can't align in some people brains. I support the troops, not their leader or plan. I never took the oath that they did.
So why can't we all just get along? Pfffttt. I don't know how any of us can get along at all. The fact that someone gets these collections of monkeys (I'm referring to humans in general) in any form of orders is amazing. The idea of "no rules" is not realistic. Someone will always take charge - if you start with anarchy someone is bound to start organizing something - that is where anarchy would thus end.
Iraq had a ruling class that was unfair, but how many of those governments are there in the world? We had other places we needed to do this job sooner, but Iraq was an easy scapegoat. You have to see Bush had this in mind before 911 even - he was documented as trying to figure out how to address this issue of controlling Iraq. They were a weak country with no "real" military. Now it is a terrorist state - which is our fault. It certainly was a low terrorist area - due to a powerful evil leader and monarchy. Truthfully, even with the deaths and evil behavior previously seen there, there were far less innocent people killed before we showed up to smash the government. For more are being negatively effected by these actions then before the war, and there is not end in sight. And we still have no better control on terrorism. We have people who now have a world class training center for terrorist with our solders as living decoys. And we are so scared to death ourselves that we drag people from their homes to try to find the "evil doers". Sheesh.
I don't know. I had a point when I started, but though the mental athletics required by these topics, it wore me out. Should Iran have nukes? I don't know how anyone can even imagine these questions. Frame of reference makes all the difference. That goes for this board, for the US, for helmet use, and terrorism. I know why Iran thinks they should be able to have them, and I don't see how we can complain since we allow ourselves this luxury. Yes, they do some crazy stuff that doesn't respect life like we do, but we still are not free from sin ourselves. I would never attempt to compare Iran to the US as an equal comparison, but I do know we are not in the position to tell anyone else what to do.
Utopia was mentioned earlier. No such place could exist. No matter what things make your Utopia, you're probably peeing in someone else's sandbox. Many people hate the words politically correct, and tolerance, but sometimes there is no substitute for understanding someone you don't agree with's point of view.
