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Posted: Sun Jul 06, 2008 3:13 pm
by Ivan M
Thumper wrote:Ivan M wrote:I don't think experience plays into this issue. Even as a person with no riding experience, I could step back and say, "That's a pretty dumb way of doing things."
Teaching a teenage kid to spar. I show him a technique--round kick to the side of the knee, side kick to the gut, knee slam to the head.
He snorts about how he'd never do that in the street. It's not practical. He'd just kick them in the head and be done with it.
So I invite him to to kick me in the head, and he's very surprised to be holding his groin and grimacing in pain.
Once he catches his breath, I show him--round kick buckles the knee. Sidekick doubles him over, making the knee to the head easy and efficient. Very practical. Much less effort than trying to knock an opponent out with one misguided kick.
He thought his being told a combination was "stupid" and that going straight to the end point was smarter. He lacked the experience to tell him otherwise.
Just like you learn basic arithmetic before algebra, and algebra before calculus... certain skills and knowledge starts small, and start slow. When you have the fundamentals, what comes after is so much easier.
Then again, at this point you're not going to admit any error. In another situation, you'd be the one holding your groin.
I'm not sure how this little story relates to riding skills. If you want to talk fighting skills, I'd equate really slow speed riding to learning a spinning back fist before a straight jab. A spinning back fist has very limited use and barely ever lands. Sure it's much harder to throw than a simple jab, but which punch happens more often and is more useful? In the same vein, learning a spinning back fist doesn't mean your jab is going to be any good.
As for starting small, in this case learning to ride properly at reasonable speed is the basic arithmetic. It's been pointed out many a time that riding very slowly is harder.
Your story about kicking a dumb teenager in the balls was pretty good. It takes a real tough guy to kick a kid in the nuts. I wouldn't be trying to kick your head though, I'm a wrestler. I learned a bunch of flashy kicks when I was a kid, then I realized that all that flash isn't very practical when a guy can just take you down and smash your head through concrete.
Posted: Sun Jul 06, 2008 3:19 pm
by Ivan M
the_sandman_454 wrote:hat's probably because, as I said, you don't counter-steer at 5 km/h. So yes, it would be a lot harder, if nigh impossible. You sure proved me wrong.
As I said above, you can countersteer at low speeds to initiate the lean. You don't press nearly as hard or have to deflect the front wheel as much to do it at low speeds, but it does work, as long as you use it in moderation. It's nearly imperceptable but if you watch a video of the front tire at low speeds countersteer will induce the lean you want (or maybe more than you want if you overdo it).
There's no point to counter-steering at 5 km/h. You can't make as sharp of a turn and it's much harder to do. You can't weave through cones at 5 km/h with counter-steering.
Posted: Sun Jul 06, 2008 3:28 pm
by Ivan M
A couple months back I was talking to a very experienced rider about the skills test he took way back in the day. He told me that the tester wanted him to put his bike down and then pick it up to prove that he could. He absolutely refused to do so for obvious reasons.
A lot of time has passed since then, but the fact remains that these people aren't infallible just because they have experience. Thousands of miles on your motorcycle won't make you any less of an idiot.
Posted: Sun Jul 06, 2008 3:29 pm
by Brackstone
Is it me or did this thread get seriously derailed?
Posted: Sun Jul 06, 2008 3:46 pm
by dean owens
Brackstone wrote:Is it me or did this thread get seriously derailed?
it's just you
Posted: Sun Jul 06, 2008 5:51 pm
by oxbow1
hey dude, just strap it on and go then, hop on and wrench the throttle , hit 88 mph and go to the enchantment under the sea dance........
your gonna live forever anyway
Posted: Sun Jul 06, 2008 6:38 pm
by ofblong
dean owens wrote:come on thumper... haven't you learned anything from this thread? if you had you would know that the kid holding his groin knows that your method doesn't make any since. a noobie can see that. and besides... if he's thrown 2 kicks then he's just as experienced as your 400 kicks. after the first few you really don't learn anything new.
good grief! when are you going to learn thumper?
to ivan, enjoy your ride.
hehe time to move on. what was the thread started about????
Posted: Sun Jul 06, 2008 10:11 pm
by storysunfolding
Ivan-
Everyone I ride with can do these slow weaves. They demonstrate good clutch and throttle coordination, balance, finese on the brakes and overall control of the motorcycle. What's the problem? Just practice and learn it like everyone else. If you choose to not do it ever again- great. Don't see the point in complaining about something that you have to do
Posted: Mon Jul 07, 2008 5:26 am
by Tower18CHI
Perhaps you should take the test on a different bike. I took the test with 2 other guys, both riding 1000cc sportbikes. These guys couldn't do any of the maneuvers, half the time because their bikes were incapable. Whereas I EASILY did the cone weave on my little 250 UJM-style bike.
Posted: Mon Jul 07, 2008 7:52 am
by ofblong
Tower18CHI wrote:Perhaps you should take the test on a different bike. I took the test with 2 other guys, both riding 1000cc sportbikes. These guys couldn't do any of the maneuvers, half the time because their bikes were incapable. Whereas I EASILY did the cone weave on my little 250 UJM-style bike.
I know a guy on a 1500cc bike that can do these maneuvers.