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Well said, Divide!

I don't think anyone bristles at all to the thought or exclamation of Americans loving or being proud of where they are from - watch - "I love America and I'm proud to be an American!" - What sets them off is the need of many Americans to say that we are THE BEST - a notion that is certainly as subjective a topic as there is. Besides, most of us haven't really lived an appreciable amount of time in other countries - excluding military service - hardly the best way to experience what other nations have to offer. Most who have travelled extensively see the beauty of other cultures and don't seem to have the need to be so provincial and have a need to declare us THE BEST. Besides, in spite of our past accomplishments as a nation, things have changed. We're no longer the world banking power we used to be. We don't do near the manufacturing we used to. Our currency has suffered mightily. Our military, though still mighty, is less than half the size it once was while others are growing. Our world sporting dominance in many disciplines has suffered many setbacks in recent memory. I'm not insulting my nation - we had a hell of a hundred year run... but in the big scheme of things, 100 years isn't very long. I'm just recognizing that we live in a global economy now and also that recorded history is a lot longer than 100 years. Jets and computers and population growth have shrunk this planet dramatically in our lifetimes. The whole planet has a lot to offer. In my experience there's nothing for expanding your worldview like travelling. I've spent big chunks of time in other nations and I met wonderful, intelligent people in every one of them. Two months in Cameroon. Two years in the Central African Republic. A couple of weeks in Togo and Zaire. Couple months in Mexico. Month in Thailand. Bunch of little trips to Canda. In the US, I've lived East Coast, Southeast and Pacific NW. It's a fabulous country. But the rest of the world is pretty damn nice as well. At least the parts of it that I've seen. I'd be hard pressed to pick THE BEST place I've seen. Though the women in Thailand were mighty pretty....

I don't think that most people who declare this nation as "the best" are any different than some sports fan declaring a certain team or university "the best". There are seasons when the team is not doing so hot, and times when it's on top...but you stick through the bad times and celebrate the good ones, and in the end that's your team. I see no arrogance in the majority of American patriots.

And as for your points about progress abroad, you're right. But how much of that progress is due to trading with a free-market society the size of the U.S.? How much of that progress is due to the breakthroughs and innovations we have made here in America thanks to our freedoms? In other words, would the rest of the world be doing so well had we not set an example of what freedom and capitalism can do for a country? Would Taiwan be doing so well had we not decided to have them make everything (including American flags) for us? Would China be experiencing this unprecedented economic upturn had it not been for the negotiations and coaching of the U.S.? Have other countries done similar things? Yes, they have. In fact, I'd like to take this opportunity to thank our bretheren across the pond in Great Britain for standing by our side since 9-11. But overall we have influenced the world in the short time we've existed more than any other nation ever has. You can argue with me if you want to (and I know you want to! ) but you'd be hard-pressed to disagree. As a matter of fact, our success at spreading freedom and prosperity to the world is the very reason 9-11 happened here and not elsewhere.

I don't think anyone would question the impact the United States had on the world economy during the entire 20th century. The impact is incalculable. The spreading freedom stuff however, is most certainly up for debate. It's not fair to take credit for our foreign policy successes without owning up to its occasional catastrophic failures. If you're unwilling to admit the US is partly responsible for some horrible tragedies (and almost completely responsible for some others) then there really isn't much to debate about. We've secretly (and not so secretly) funded some absolutely despicable monsters in the name of 'freedom' by following the 'my enemy's enemy is my friend' doctrine on many different occasions with disastrous results. I completely agree with you about American technological innovations and early support of burgeoning economies. But the worm is turning - our share of the world economic pie is shrinking at an exponential rate. The days of pushing the rest of the world around with our big stack of chips is ending if its not already over - one need only compare the list of coalition countries between the first gulf war and the second. And the enemies our foreign policy engenders will remember the havoc we have wrought.

DivideOverflow wrote:What country do you live in? (I seem to have missed that part). Are you french-canadian?

Most civilized countries have their good sides and bad sides. I'm glad you like our country, but there is no need to get mad at Americans for liking theirs. Everyone expects us to be disgusted with ourselves for some reason... I dont want you to be jealous, I'm glad you enjoy where you live. I'm not arrogant and have no illusions about the country I live in.

I am Australian.

I am not mad at Americans for liking their country, nor have I said anything remotely similar. I can tell anyone who is prepared to listen how much I love my bike, but as soon as I start telling people that it is a better bike than theirs, problems start.

You love your country, great, I love mine too. But when you tell me yours is better when it clearly isn't, I will object.

Mintbread wrote:

DivideOverflow wrote:What country do you live in? (I seem to have missed that part). Are you french-canadian?

Most civilized countries have their good sides and bad sides. I'm glad you like our country, but there is no need to get mad at Americans for liking theirs. Everyone expects us to be disgusted with ourselves for some reason... I dont want you to be jealous, I'm glad you enjoy where you live. I'm not arrogant and have no illusions about the country I live in.

I am Australian.

I am not mad at Americans for liking their country, nor have I said anything remotely similar. I can tell anyone who is prepared to listen how much I love my bike, but as soon as I start telling people that it is a better bike than theirs, problems start.

You love your country, great, I love mine too. But when you tell me yours is better when it clearly isn't, I will object.

isnt a 'better' country a matter of ones opinion? your country cant be 'clearly' better to anyone except you. the us has problems but im glad to be here so to me the us is clearly better than aus and no point in arguing that.

What is your opinion based on?

Mintbread wrote:What is your opinion based on?

the way of life i enjoy in this country. ive been to several other countries in my young years and i dont like them. germany was cool but its to different to be right for me, italy was just to old feeling, france was just stupid, switzerland wasnt anything great, canada is just to slow and i couldnt live in an igloo.

ive been in about 25 US states and found something in them all that i liked or a reason to live there. i like the fast majority of people i may complain about it but i like going to the store and seeing ever possible combination of people and religion all there in the same place. theres too much oppurtunity in this country. to many different things to see or do, each state has its own way of life you can live an entirely new style of life just by crossing a border while still staying in your home country.

look at our past look what the us has given the world, then look what aus has given to the world? with out the us youd have no internet right now to use this forum. youd have no computer to type on no car to drive no airplane to fly in. you wouldnt live in a world where man has walked on the moon, youd have no pictures of mars or any thought of ever having man walk on mars. sure other countries can achieve some of this Now After the us has done it first to show you it can be done and how. your countries biggest contribution to the world is what? beer?

everyone wants to hate the us, but they copy everything from here.

be proud of your own country by all means but you wont convince me your country is better, for one theres to many kangaroos.

iwannadie wrote: your countries biggest contribution to the world is what? beer?

everyone wants to hate the us, but they copy everything from here.

Thanks for the laugh. Your ignorance is something to behold.

Mintbread wrote:

iwannadie wrote: your countries biggest contribution to the world is what? beer?

everyone wants to hate the us, but they copy everything from here.

Thanks for the laugh. Your ignorance is something to behold.

ok prove me wrong? laugh all you want but if all you do is laugh then well thats great im still right. if im wrong im more than open to being educated but oh well.