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dyingeye wrote:I'm curious why...

I'm curious why people spend so much time and effort on researching and defending their pet conspiracy theories when there are so many more obvious horrors in the world.

sv-wolf wrote:

dyingeye wrote:I'm curious why...

I'm curious why people spend so much time and effort on researching and defending their pet conspiracy theories when there are so many more obvious horrors in the world.

you mean like the soccer mom in her suburban yaking on the cell phone next to you?

I only ask someone to have an open mind. Because of all the abundant information, ample evidence, and numerous eye witness accounts to suggest such horrifying corruption, it has become too difficult to ignore. There are a number of organizations, publishers, celebrities, and even government insiders who suggest this blasphemy. I only ask someone to do a bit of research outside of American media before they jump to their conclusions. One may be surprised of the relevant questions and explanation discovered.

Sadly, many people choose to continue living with no regard to the events that are gradually, and obscurely taking place. Nobody seems to notice, and nobody seems to care. So many people remain "willfully ignorant" as a famous comedian George Carlin once put it. But if you don't care, and you think everything the media spews to you has your best interests in mind, then I wish you, and your family the best of luck in this bent world.

I hope the TmW moderators will not remove this response like they did my last. What is there to hide in the 'SoapBox Forum'? I thought we were here to discuss anything...

dyingeye wrote:I only ask someone to have an open mind...... There are a number of organizations, publishers, celebrities, and even government insiders who suggest this blasphemy.

Why? You obviously are unwilling to do the same... like read a physics textbook for example. Celebrities believe this?!?!? Holy Credibility Batman, it must be right!

dyingeye wrote: Sadly, many people choose to continue living with no regard to the events that are gradually, and obscurely taking place. Nobody seems to notice, and nobody seems to care. So many people remain "willfully ignorant" as a famous comedian George Carlin once put it. But if you don't care, and you think everything the media spews to you has your best interests in mind, then I wish you, and your family the best of luck in this bent world.

So you think that if someone believes it actually was terrorists responsible for flying planes into buildings, that they must also believe and support everything the American government does?

dyingeye wrote:I hope the TmW moderators will not remove this response like they did my last. What is there to hide in the 'SoapBox Forum'? I thought we were here to discuss anything...

WE are here to discuss anything (mostly motorcycle related.... pick up a clue, Sherlock), YOU are only here to spout your paranoia, personal conspiracy and persecution delusions, and stir up shiit. You have had nothing worthwhile to contribute, you have proven you are a jackass, so why don't you just move along now.

Ha, ha, someone deleted one of your 'posts'? I don't know who did or why, but I am sure there was a dam good reason. Or you pressed the wrong button yourself.... you haven't given much reason to suspect you possess the intelligence to be above that. Once more.....

Isn't it time you were someplace else?

ofblong wrote:

sv-wolf wrote:

dyingeye wrote:I'm curious why...

I'm curious why people spend so much time and effort on researching and defending their pet conspiracy theories when there are so many more obvious horrors in the world.

you mean like the soccer mom in her suburban yaking on the cell phone next to you?

:

OK, I give in. So Bush is a philanthropist!

Maybe if he had sent Saddam a hotline number on his 'cell phone' they could have yakked on about their plans for world domination together and left the rest of us in peace.

to all the guys with they engineering/physics/etc degrees:

Why was there thermite found at ground zero?

intotherain wrote:to all the guys with they engineering/physics/etc degrees:

Why was there thermite found at ground zero?

I never claimed to be an engineering master. Just an amature who has heard a few expert on PBS explain what happened. What is thermite? Is that some sort of proof of explosives? How much was found? Are there any alternate sources of thermite? Who reported there was thermite and where can I see this data?

Here is what I don't get. If they wanted to blow up a building and blame terrorist why would they waste the time crashing the planes and having all these big holes in the reason for the colapse. Why not just blow up the buildings with explosive and then blame terrorist. Seems that would actually be easier to cover up than something like what has been suggested as the "real" plot.

Those of you who think airplanes hitting a building, knocking off heat protective coating, burnining fuel, and structural failure wouldn't cause this colapse, you need to get a copy of PBS Frontline about 911. These guys are always looking for a way to blame people and especially the government. If they don't report this plot, I doubt is worthy of your time. Frontline has never been a friend to the US government.

intotherain wrote:to all the guys with they engineering/physics/etc degrees:

Why was there thermite found at ground zero?

I have no idea specifically, but perhaps it had something to do with the original construction (and welding thereof) of the building itself. http://www.infoplease.com/ce6/sci/A0848440.html

Cheers,
Loonette

sv-wolf wrote: OK, I give in. So Bush is a philanthropist!

I'll only believe Bush is a philanthropist if he can pronounce it.

scan wrote:

intotherain wrote:to all the guys with they engineering/physics/etc degrees:

Why was there thermite found at ground zero?

I never claimed to be an engineering master. Just an amature who has heard a few expert on PBS explain what happened. What is thermite? Is that some sort of proof of explosives? How much was found? Are there any alternate sources of thermite? Who reported there was thermite and where can I see this data?

Here is what I don't get. If they wanted to blow up a building and blame terrorist why would they waste the time crashing the planes and having all these big holes in the reason for the colapse. Why not just blow up the buildings with explosive and then blame terrorist. Seems that would actually be easier to cover up than something like what has been suggested as the "real" plot.

Those of you who think airplanes hitting a building, knocking off heat protective coating, burnining fuel, and structural failure wouldn't cause this colapse, you need to get a copy of PBS Frontline about 911. These guys are always looking for a way to blame people and especially the government. If they don't report this plot, I doubt is worthy of your time. Frontline has never been a friend to the US government.

+1 scan

Very few of us have enough expertise or sufficient access to original evidence or forensic research to investigate things like 9/11 with any degree of honesty. Very few of us have the ability or knowledge to weigh up the complex evidence. And very few have the objectivity to consider both evidence and counter-evidence, or make a thorough investigation of all the possible reasons why something might have occurred. Above all, not many of us have the time or the resources to come to a balanced judgement.

The simple truth is that, as human beings, we choose what we want to believe. We choose which 'experts' we want to give authority to or place our trust in. We choose the people whose arguments we prefer to listen to and then repeat. And we make our choices on the basis of prior conviction. In my opinion, we all do it. And we all do it all the time.

It seems to me that once people are emotionally committed to an idea, they then spend a lot of time seeking out the right kind of 'evidence' or argument that will support what they have already come to believe. The more they argue their case, the firmer they drive it into their consciousness and the 'truer' it starts to seem to them. The pretence of objectivity, over things like this, is just that - a pretence. The giveaway is the degree to which people are desperate that other people should believe them and think as they do. It seems to me that as soon as we want others to confirm our belief to us, then the dishonesty of the proceeding is made clear.

So the more interesting question, to my mind, is, why someone chooses to believe as they do. It might be for very personal reasons, or it might be because of something much bigger.

Clearly intotherain, you don't like George Bush. You probably don't like George Bush for a lot of other reasons besides your belief that he was responsible for 9/11. What's that about?

Personally, I doubt whether the Bush administration was responsible for 9/11, but I'm not that bothered either way. What is of more interest to me is the use Bush made of the event. It became the one big excuse he needed to invade Iraq. Invading Iraq was already on his agenda before 9/11. He just needed an excuse. It was a pretty flimsy excuse, but he managed to bamboozle the American electorate into believing that Saddam Hussein had links with Al Quaeda and bore some responsibility for the event.

1.2 million people have now died violent deaths in Iraq as a direct result of the invasion. 5 million have fled from their homes and are now living the life of refugees. Thousands of children have been blown apart by cluster bombs, thousands more have died of preventable disease. That to me is the greater legacy of 9/11 and the presidential response to it.

Back in the USA, poverty is increasing everywhere while the biggest corporations are turning in massive profits. Following in Clinton's shoes (somehow people seem to think this guy was a reformer!), Bush stood four square as the business candidate in the last couple of elections. 9/11 was the best excuse Bush could have been given to clamp down on civil liberties and continue the process of shifting wealth upwards begun by Regan.

And while this is all very depressing, it is hardly surprising, and it is not very new. In the even bigger picture, murder, intolerance, exploitation and oppression have been quietly initiated by governments and corporations inside and outside of America and the EU and everywhere else for centuries. The only thing is, it happens all the while, day-by-day, undramatically, hardly noticed - unlike 9/11 - so it's just not sexy or exciting enough for people like conspiracy theorists to get indignant about. It's very easy to get loudly indignant about the crimes, real and unreal, of someone like Bush. It is much harder to take up the cause of the victim. And it is much harder still to decide what you are going to do about it.