NSA collected phone records - Tens of millions of calls

[NorthernPete]

he did make some fine chicken... I wonder if they buried him in a bucket?

[MrGompers]

And wearing that silly bowtie.

[Nibblet99]

Going back a bit....

The 'cameras' are just an extension of law enforcement. If we had a cop on ever corner, you wouldn't mind. But if we have 1 cop watching 50 cameras on every corner, suddenly its a violation of your rights.

I understand your point, but my problem is that the real dangers on the road are inattentive drivers and drink/drug drivers.
Speed cameras go for the easy conviction, not the important ones. However a Policeman can make informed decisions, and pull someone for driving dangerously

kinda like booking the kid who steals 20 pence worth of sweets, and ignoring the bankrobbers who're after thousands of pounds

[NorthernPete]

Unfortunately, there is a shortage of law enforcement personael out there, Cameras to catch speeders and people who blow a red light, good in my books. Those cameras also free up our men and women in blue to go after those real criminals instead of having to sit at the corner watching for someone blowing the red light.

It may be a "pee" off to get a ticket by getting caught on camera, but in the end, you did break the law (Most times, they aint perfect) no matter how petty the law may seem, its still the law.

[sv-wolf]

Unfortunately, there is a shortage of law enforcement personael out there, Cameras to catch speeders and people who blow a red light, good in my books. Those cameras also free up our men and women in blue to go after those real criminals instead of having to sit at the corner watching for someone blowing the red light.

It may be a "pee" off to get a ticket by getting caught on camera, but in the end, you did break the law (Most times, they aint perfect) no matter how petty the law may seem, its still the law.

Love the avatar, Pete.

'The law is still the law'. You talk as though the law were handed down from on high or as though it would be some kind of blasphemy to question it. The law is just a human institution like any other and is not above criticism by you, me or anyone else. The phrase 'The law is the law' (how many times to we hear this?) is just a piece of authoritarian bullshit.

Serious academic studies in this country show that speed cameras do not save lives or prevent injuries nearly as effectively as the government and the police partnerships like to pretend. On the other hand it is also clear that the placing of cameras is often designed to catch the maximum number of speeders rather than save the maximum number of lives. One study by the University of Liverpool points out that there are too many people making too much money out of the cameras for the police ever to be imparital about their use.

The more cameras that appear on the roads the fewer police patrols there are, and the more drivers you see driving dangerousy and openly breaking the law. Is that a good thing?

Speed will often make the consequences of an accident worse, but it will rarely be the cause of the accident itself. By concentrating on speed to the exclusion of everything else, the police are allowing serious accidents to increase. (In fact in one study it was shown that the lowering of the speed limit throughout one county area actually resulted in an increase in the number of accidents.)

There is plenty of evidence to challenge the 'law' on these issues and every good reason to do so.

[sv-wolf]

Well, I've dropped out of school for one thing, so I don't think I have much of a chance getting a job as say... an astronaut, lol.

.

Cm'on Cam. Don't think like that. Prove me wrong.

Now I'm feeling guilty

What you are saying is a perfect example of the way people's own mindsets get them trapped into dead end jobs. Kinda proves my point. But it's only a general tendency. It doesn't work on the individual level. As Kal says, you can change things by making an effort and by thinking positively and actively. It could make a big difference to the rest of your life.

[CNF2002]

The more cameras that appear on the roads the fewer police patrols there are, and the more drivers you see driving dangerousy and openly breaking the law. Is that a good thing?

Since cameras arent widespread yet, how can you have any useful data to back this opinion up?

If people drive 80mph to work and get 10 tickets in the mail for it, you can bet it will get their attention and they'll slow down.

These 'petty crimes' need automated enforcement so that, as someone else said, cops can work on important cases instead of handholding the idiots who decide getting to work 3 minutes earlier is worth the safety of everyone else on the road.

Anyone can argue that speed laws are designed just for revenue. The cameras are NO different, they just do it better and catch your sorry butt easier. People can talk all they want, but really they are just peeved because now they cant get away with what they've been doing for their whole life.

Now we need cellphone trackers on the road to catch people who make long conversations while driving. Set up cameras so when they catch accidents, if the camera sees the driver not paying attention we can nail them for that too.

Thats my opinion...if people werent so stupid they wouldnt need the government to hold their hand when they get behind the wheel just to get them to be safe and responsible.

[NorthernPete]

Im not going to say the system is perfect, far from it. And I know that I'll clip along at 10 - 20 KM over the speed limit myself, but if I get a ticket, be it from a real flesh and blood cop, or a camera mounted in a van set to take a picture of someone going over the limit, I cant complain. I chose to break the law = I chose to face the consiquences of said action.

Im just goping to say I agree with CNF, that the cops should be focusing more on the larger crimes and leave the petty things to the automation. The limits are there for a reason. (although there is the Autobahn....

[camthepyro]

I've heard the autobahn spends more time gridlocked than anything else.

[MrGompers]

NothernPete,

I can assure you theres no shortage of police in the state of Conn. Maybe there is where you live. The police in Conn enforce traffic laws very hard.
The only other place I've been to that enforces traffic just as hard is the state of Maryland.


Saying this is the law and we should follow it isn't a good enough reason to do so. All laws are up for debate & change. Laws are formed based on what society deems to be moral. (this is slowly changing tho and laws are being formed based on what corporations want)

"its the duty of every citizen to question authority" Benjamin Franklin

Back to the cameras again. I think you guys are missing a critical point here. I already said it earlier.

Traffic laws are SELECTIVELY enforced. If they were enforced evenly the court systems would be backed up till 2095. Whenever the govt needs some more tax they send out the police to ticket citizens.

This is crazy if you think about it. We pay taxes in various forms. Those taxes pay the salaries of the police. They also pay for the creation and maintenance of the road system. We drive on the roads we paid for and get ticketed by the police who we also paid for. It should be the other way around. The police should be stopping citizens and giving us our money back.

IMO parking tickets & traffic tickets are another tax. If the govt really wanted to increase traffic safety theres a number of things they can do without ticketing. I already listed some in a previous post.

Cameras for traffic enforcement are only the beginning its a slippery slope. Next it will be to "save the children" or catch the "terrorists(tm)" or catch the "illegals" Once those reasons dry up they will turn the cameras on us. Not to mention the fact who says the people in control of this system can be trusted. Who watches the watchers ?

If you want to see the absolute absurdity of this read 1984 or Brave New World. If you don't feel like reading the movie "Gattica" would be acceptable. It's similar to the book Brave New World.