Posted: Tue Jul 04, 2006 7:26 am
Why?quintisv wrote:Lets just all hold hands and be happy.
Then agree that we all hope this person dies a horrible death.
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Why are Harleys cool?
Page 9 of 30
Posted: Tue Jul 04, 2006 7:28 am
very well putZooTech wrote:Okay, here's my take on it:
Why are Harley's cool? What is it about them that allows them to fetch a premium price? To answer these questions I think we need to look at another brand that also fetches a premium...BMW.
When you buy a BMW it's a given that you will enjoy top-shelf fit-and-finish, excellent comfort, lots of ammenities, and some trick suspension. BMW may have earned an undeserved reputation for suspension genius with their automobiles, but the bikes bring the real deal. It's not about the image (for most, at least) it's about owning a bike that was thoroughly engineered to run and corner fast and comfortable.
So, what about Harley? Any technical genius to speak of? Any trick suspension setups or high-tech engines? Any well-deserved cornering prowess? That would be a big, fat no all around. They are old-fashioned in design much the same way as Royal-Enfield is. Granted, the reliability is finally up, but only to industry standards and no higher. To say that Hondas fetch the same high prices is silly, since a fully-loaded GoldWing includes GPS navigation, heated seats, an airbag, and a six-speaker CD stereo system - hardly an apples-to-apples comparison with an Electri-Glide.
So, the only thing left really is image and aesthetics, the latter of which I understand since I've been known to pay a little extra for something if it catches my eye more than the others. As for image, however, that's not for me. But it is for some, and Harley knows it. Some say Harleys change very little from year to year in an effort to stay true to their heritage, but I say why pay huge salaries to a design team when you can keep serving up the same bikes year after year with record sales?
In short, Harleys are cool for the exact same reason Nike Air Jordans have been cool since I was in elementary school. Not because they're a superior shoe, but because society has deemed them such. And as long as people are willing to pay $125.00 for a $5.00 pair of sneakers, Nike isn't interested in making them any better.
Posted: Tue Jul 04, 2006 7:30 am
Jim Ziemer, CEO of Harley, addresses this subject specifically in his introduction to their 2005 Annual Report:dieziege wrote:I don't understand the term "abuse" in this context... dealers charge what the market will bear. If the official price is too low, the dealers should raise it... especially if they can't get enough product from the manufacturer to meet demand. If there is more product than demand, dealers will need to lower the price until the product moves.
How can a dealer setting a price be "abusive"?
"Quite simply, the high levels of unmet consumer demand for our bikes that we experienced for years was no way to run a business for the long term. I never met a customer who thanked me when he or she had to pay substantially over m.s.r.p. for a motorcycle, or when delivery of that motorcycle might take a year or longer. Continuous growth cannot be sustained under those kinds of circumstances. And sustainability over the long haul is what we’ve been about as a company and as an investment, going all the way back to our IPO 20 years ago. Some on Wall Street may have had an affinity for a the product scarcity model, but it made for understandably frustrated customers, some of whom undoubtedly went down the street to a competitor."
The corporation is clearly making a priority of building enough bikes to sustain the MSRP. If dealers manipulate local markets to create artifical shortages to support higher-than MSRP prices, that's abuse.
Re: Why are Harleys cool?
Posted: Tue Jul 04, 2006 10:23 am
Check out Mike's Famous Harley-Davidson. People flock there to get ripped off.jstark47 wrote:Bubba, that's interesting. I haven't done that comparison, but I've read the 2005 Harley Annual Report, which gave the impression they'd stamped out that kind of abusive dealer markup.Bubba wrote:I think the biggest downfall of the Harley is the dealers. They inflate the prices. Just go to the factory Harley site and check out the base price of the bikes there, Then go to any Harley dealer and compare.
Re: Why are Harleys cool?
Posted: Tue Jul 04, 2006 10:32 am
Sorry Gummienta, but I don't have any prejudices. I just stated my beliefs and as far as I have determined, the facts.Gummiente wrote:Some people don't want to be updated on that sort of thing, it messes with their prejudice.jstark47 wrote:Bubba, that's interesting. I haven't done that comparison, but I've read the 2005 Harley Annual Report, which gave the impression they'd stamped out that kind of abusive dealer markup.
When I was in the market fo a bike I went to the Harley site to get some prices. I settled on the springer softail. Price was listed at about $14000. Rode all the wasy to Mike's Famous Harley-Davidson in Maryland, who advertises as the biggest around. Found the bike I wanted with a Mike's Famous price tag of $17,995.
This is why I said what I said. Sorry if I insulted you.
Re: Why are Harleys cool?
Posted: Tue Jul 04, 2006 10:56 am
Is that the one just over the Delaware Memorial?Bubba wrote:Check out Mike's Famous Harley-Davidson. People flock there to get ripped off.jstark47 wrote:Bubba, that's interesting. I haven't done that comparison, but I've read the 2005 Harley Annual Report, which gave the impression they'd stamped out that kind of abusive dealer markup.Bubba wrote:I think the biggest downfall of the Harley is the dealers. They inflate the prices. Just go to the factory Harley site and check out the base price of the bikes there, Then go to any Harley dealer and compare.
Posted: Tue Jul 04, 2006 11:16 am
Big. Powerful. Loud. Proud.
Just like the Country they come from...the US of A.
That's why!
Just like the Country they come from...the US of A.
That's why!
Posted: Tue Jul 04, 2006 4:48 pm
Still as full of "poo poo" as ever.ZooTech wrote:They are old-fashioned in design much the same way as Royal-Enfield is.
Don't ever change, Zoomie, you're still the funniest one in the forum.Re: Why are Harleys cool?
Posted: Tue Jul 04, 2006 4:54 pm
How long ago was that? Becuase what you said was a valid point up until about three years ago; but things have changed since then as jstark has already pointed out. I'm sure there are still a few dealers that charge over msrp, but they are few and far between now.Bubba wrote:When I was in the market fo a bike
Bubba, you'll have to try a lot harder than that to insult me.Bubba wrote:Sorry if I insulted you.
No offense was taken.Posted: Tue Jul 04, 2006 5:06 pm
As usual, a stellar rebuttle from Gummiente.Gummiente wrote:Still as full of "poo poo" as ever.ZooTech wrote:They are old-fashioned in design much the same way as Royal-Enfield is.