Clutch-Less Shifting, Final Answer??

[HYPERR]

In the end its just the same as getting your knee down - absolutly pointless off of the track apart from some kind of obscure bragging rights.

Not reallly, the shift is certainly smoother, especially on my R1150R with dry single plate clutch(as a matter of fact, it is the ONLY way it will shift like butter on this bike), and it makes the ride just a little bit more enjoyable for me. It certainly is not for bragging rights as you say as I never talk about it unless someone asks(which someone did on this thread).

I do other "pointless" things too like riding my dirtbike off-road, popping wheelies, doing stoppies, riding and falling in mud, turning in gravel by intentionally locking up my rear brakes and sliding it, etc. Jeez I wonder why I do such "pointless" things??

[Skier]

According to the Basic Rider Course manual, it is possible to both upshift and downshift without using the clutch. Under the section for broken clutch cable.

If clutchless shifting were such a great and easy thing, they would have taught it during the class.

A course ostensibly presented as a safety course should, and does, spend time on safety techniques and strategies rather than a shifting technique that may or may not improve smoothness.

[ofblong]

In the end its just the same as getting your knee down - absolutly pointless off of the track apart from some kind of obscure bragging rights.

Not reallly, the shift is certainly smoother, especially on my R1150R with dry single plate clutch(as a matter of fact, it is the ONLY way it will shift like butter on this bike), and it makes the ride just a little bit more enjoyable for me. It certainly is not for bragging rights as you say as I never talk about it unless someone asks(which someone did on this thread).

I do other "pointless" things too like riding my dirtbike off-road, popping wheelies, doing stoppies, riding and falling in mud, turning in gravel by intentionally locking up my rear brakes and sliding it, etc. Jeez I wonder why I do such "pointless" things??

Remind me to NEVER buy a bike from you.


with that said I think they should tell you about clutchless shifting because what if you are stuck in the middle of no where and your cable brakes. You have no way of fixing the cable so have to get somewhere to get it fixed. Some people cant afford cell phones and even if you have one that doesnt mean you will have "bars".

[HYPERR]

In the end its just the same as getting your knee down - absolutly pointless off of the track apart from some kind of obscure bragging rights.

Not reallly, the shift is certainly smoother, especially on my R1150R with dry single plate clutch(as a matter of fact, it is the ONLY way it will shift like butter on this bike), and it makes the ride just a little bit more enjoyable for me. It certainly is not for bragging rights as you say as I never talk about it unless someone asks(which someone did on this thread).

I do other "pointless" things too like riding my dirtbike off-road, popping wheelies, doing stoppies, riding and falling in mud, turning in gravel by intentionally locking up my rear brakes and sliding it, etc. Jeez I wonder why I do such "pointless" things??

Remind me to NEVER buy a bike from you.


with that said I think they should tell you about clutchless shifting because what if you are stuck in the middle of no where and your cable brakes. You have no way of fixing the cable so have to get somewhere to get it fixed. Some people cant afford cell phones and even if you have one that doesnt mean you will have "bars".

My street bikes are all in mint condition and people line up to buy my bikes when they are for sale. They are meticulously maintained and never abused. I have had past buyers run into me, long after the sale and thank me for selling them such a well cared for machine and hands down, it is the best vehicle they have ever bought. If anything the condition of my tranny oil in my BMW(non unit construction automotive type dry clutch) is an excellent indicator of the condition of the tranny you question. When I drain it at oil change time, it still looks brand new and the magnetic drain plug shows no metal particles whatsoever. None

And if you are questioning the condition of my dirbike, then obviously you have never ridden dirt have you? I'm no longer 25 and I don't do crazy MX style jumps. If you watch some of the young kids on the Huskys and the Katooms, you will know that for a dirtbike, my bike is quite babied.

And lay off the personal attacks.

[ofblong]

In the end its just the same as getting your knee down - absolutly pointless off of the track apart from some kind of obscure bragging rights.

Not reallly, the shift is certainly smoother, especially on my R1150R with dry single plate clutch(as a matter of fact, it is the ONLY way it will shift like butter on this bike), and it makes the ride just a little bit more enjoyable for me. It certainly is not for bragging rights as you say as I never talk about it unless someone asks(which someone did on this thread).

I do other "pointless" things too like riding my dirtbike off-road, popping wheelies, doing stoppies, riding and falling in mud, turning in gravel by intentionally locking up my rear brakes and sliding it, etc. Jeez I wonder why I do such "pointless" things??

Remind me to NEVER buy a bike from you.


with that said I think they should tell you about clutchless shifting because what if you are stuck in the middle of no where and your cable brakes. You have no way of fixing the cable so have to get somewhere to get it fixed. Some people cant afford cell phones and even if you have one that doesnt mean you will have "bars".

My street bikes are all in mint condition and people line up to buy my bikes when they are for sale. They are meticulously maintained and never abused. I have had past buyers run into me, long after the sale and thank me for selling them such a well cared for machine and hands down, it is the best vehicle they have ever bought. If anything the condition of my tranny oil in my BMW(non unit construction automotive type dry clutch) is an excellent indicator of the condition of the tranny you question. When I drain it at oil change time, it still looks brand new and the magnetic drain plug shows no metal particles whatsoever. None

And if you are questioning the condition of my dirbike, then obviously you have never ridden dirt have you? I'm no longer 25 and I don't do crazy MX style jumps. If you watch some of the young kids on the Huskys and the Katooms, you will know that for a dirtbike, my bike is quite babied.

And lay off the personal attacks.

you said you do stunts like wheeles etc etc. That RUINS bike parts and as thus I will never buy one from you because of that.

[HYPERR]

In the end its just the same as getting your knee down - absolutly pointless off of the track apart from some kind of obscure bragging rights.

Not reallly, the shift is certainly smoother, especially on my R1150R with dry single plate clutch(as a matter of fact, it is the ONLY way it will shift like butter on this bike), and it makes the ride just a little bit more enjoyable for me. It certainly is not for bragging rights as you say as I never talk about it unless someone asks(which someone did on this thread).

I do other "pointless" things too like riding my dirtbike off-road, popping wheelies, doing stoppies, riding and falling in mud, turning in gravel by intentionally locking up my rear brakes and sliding it, etc. Jeez I wonder why I do such "pointless" things??

Remind me to NEVER buy a bike from you.


with that said I think they should tell you about clutchless shifting because what if you are stuck in the middle of no where and your cable brakes. You have no way of fixing the cable so have to get somewhere to get it fixed. Some people cant afford cell phones and even if you have one that doesnt mean you will have "bars".

My street bikes are all in mint condition and people line up to buy my bikes when they are for sale. They are meticulously maintained and never abused. I have had past buyers run into me, long after the sale and thank me for selling them such a well cared for machine and hands down, it is the best vehicle they have ever bought. If anything the condition of my tranny oil in my BMW(non unit construction automotive type dry clutch) is an excellent indicator of the condition of the tranny you question. When I drain it at oil change time, it still looks brand new and the magnetic drain plug shows no metal particles whatsoever. None

And if you are questioning the condition of my dirbike, then obviously you have never ridden dirt have you? I'm no longer 25 and I don't do crazy MX style jumps. If you watch some of the young kids on the Huskys and the Katooms, you will know that for a dirtbike, my bike is quite babied.

And lay off the personal attacks.

you said you do stunts like wheeles etc etc. That RUINS bike parts and as thus I will never buy one from you because of that.

I don't do stunts. I don't think I'm capable of doing them and I would be too scared of scuffing my bike.

I was talking about my dirtbike. Besides, lofting the front over logs and stuff as well as sliding the rear to turn are basic dirtbike techniques that would hardly be considered abuse and these bikes are built for that anyway.

I don't ride wheelies on the street. Doing so will eventually spin the #3 bearing on the CBR, blow the front cylinder on the Duc from oil starvation, and on the BMW Oilhead's uneven thrust is just too quirky(scary) for me to ride a wheelie.

Yes I occasionally get the urge to loft the front on my street bikes, but that's about it. On the Hypermotard, you can't even help it. Even a small flick will get it up in first and even in second, a brisk acceleration will get the front up. Remember this bike has the same torque monster engine as the Multistrada but heck of a lot lighter, with shorter wheelbase and lower gearing. I never bottom out though and keep all the fork sliders meticulously clean of debris as well as always coating it with Liquid Glass polish and never in my 22 years of owning bikes have I ever had to replace a fork seal. Not even on my dirtbike.

[Mr. Invisible]

Just to let you guys know, I am a new rider.

When I came across this thread, the way Hyperr put it, everyone should be shifting clutchless, and it is easy to learn and do.

After reading for a few pages, figure out that it is a technique used mainly on the race track, and done mostly by very experienced riders.

Even in the article that was presented they say that it may take a dozen or more times to figure out how to shift. What happens on during the botched upshifts while learning?

Another question, what drive do your bikes have? If they are chain drives with some play in them I can see where you can shift without doing too much damage. If they are shaft drive, What kind of damage are you doing to the driveline?

[HYPERR]

When I came across this thread, the way Hyperr put it, everyone should be shifting clutchless, and it is easy to learn and do.

I never said that. If that is how you interpreted it, then it was a case of a misunderstanding.

What I said in a nutshell is:

I just stated that clutchless upshifts, if done properly will not casuse any extra wear on the tranny and in fact will cause less damage to the tranny.

If done properly, a clutchless upshift is always indeed smoother than a clutched one. In fact it is so smooth and effortless, it does not even feel mechanical but rather electrical as virtually no resistance is felt. The gears are never forced in, but rather pulled in.

I never said everyone should be doing it. I don't really care if one does it or not. I do it on occasion when I feel like doing it. It makes the shift smoother and adds just a little bit of more satisfaction to the ride. Richard described it best when he said something like use the clutch when needed, avoid it when desired.

[HYPERR]

Even in the article that was presented they say that it may take a dozen or more times to figure out how to shift. What happens on during the botched upshifts while learning?

The first time I tried it, it snicked right into gear. That was about 20 years ago, lol. I personally have never had trouble with it from day one.

I suppose if you botch it, it will just not go into next gear and you will just stay in the current gear. Not really a terrible catastrophe assuming you are practicing in an isolated road at a marginal speed and rpm.

What you will notice when you do it correctly is that you are not forcing in the gear, it's almost as if the tranny will wait for the precise correct time and suck the gear in. You are not actually pushing it but the tranny is pulling it into gear on it's own. You will feel no resistance and it will feel electric(as Sports Rider described it).

Another question, what drive do your bikes have? If they are chain drives with some play in them I can see where you can shift without doing too much damage. If they are shaft drive, What kind of damage are you doing to the driveline?

My KLX, CBR, & Hypermotard are chain drive and my R1150R is a paralever shaftie.

Once again when done correctly, it causes no damage to the tranny or the drivetrain. As a matter of fact, with the R1150R, it is the only way to shift that tranny totally seamlessly.


If you are a new rider, there are other more useful skills that you should learn before clutchless shifting. You can improve your shifting smoothness quite a bit by going only to the friction zone on your clutch when shifting rather than pulling it in all the way to the end. You can also fan the clutch and upshift simultaneously and that will also yield a very smooth shift(second only to a clutchless one). Blipping the throttle to match the rpm when downshifting is another.

Clutchless downshifts, other than by an expert rider on the track, should never be done. I certainly don't do them. Not only is it difficult to do without causing extra wear, I don't really see any benefit to doing it in the street. The shift will feel no different from a clutched one

[ofblong]

In the end its just the same as getting your knee down - absolutly pointless off of the track apart from some kind of obscure bragging rights.

Not reallly, the shift is certainly smoother, especially on my R1150R with dry single plate clutch(as a matter of fact, it is the ONLY way it will shift like butter on this bike), and it makes the ride just a little bit more enjoyable for me. It certainly is not for bragging rights as you say as I never talk about it unless someone asks(which someone did on this thread).

I do other "pointless" things too like riding my dirtbike off-road, popping wheelies, doing stoppies, riding and falling in mud, turning in gravel by intentionally locking up my rear brakes and sliding it, etc. Jeez I wonder why I do such "pointless" things??

Remind me to NEVER buy a bike from you.


with that said I think they should tell you about clutchless shifting because what if you are stuck in the middle of no where and your cable brakes. You have no way of fixing the cable so have to get somewhere to get it fixed. Some people cant afford cell phones and even if you have one that doesnt mean you will have "bars".

My street bikes are all in mint condition and people line up to buy my bikes when they are for sale. They are meticulously maintained and never abused. I have had past buyers run into me, long after the sale and thank me for selling them such a well cared for machine and hands down, it is the best vehicle they have ever bought. If anything the condition of my tranny oil in my BMW(non unit construction automotive type dry clutch) is an excellent indicator of the condition of the tranny you question. When I drain it at oil change time, it still looks brand new and the magnetic drain plug shows no metal particles whatsoever. None

And if you are questioning the condition of my dirbike, then obviously you have never ridden dirt have you? I'm no longer 25 and I don't do crazy MX style jumps. If you watch some of the young kids on the Huskys and the Katooms, you will know that for a dirtbike, my bike is quite babied.

And lay off the personal attacks.

you said you do stunts like wheeles etc etc. That RUINS bike parts and as thus I will never buy one from you because of that.

I don't do stunts. I don't think I'm capable of doing them and I would be too scared of scuffing my bike.

I was talking about my dirtbike. Besides, lofting the front over logs and stuff as well as sliding the rear to turn are basic dirtbike techniques that would hardly be considered abuse and these bikes are built for that anyway.

I don't ride wheelies on the street. Doing so will eventually spin the #3 bearing on the CBR, blow the front cylinder on the Duc from oil starvation, and on the BMW Oilhead's uneven thrust is just too quirky(scary) for me to ride a wheelie.

Yes I occasionally get the urge to loft the front on my street bikes, but that's about it. On the Hypermotard, you can't even help it. Even a small flick will get it up in first and even in second, a brisk acceleration will get the front up. Remember this bike has the same torque monster engine as the Multistrada but heck of a lot lighter, with shorter wheelbase and lower gearing. I never bottom out though and keep all the fork sliders meticulously clean of debris as well as always coating it with Liquid Glass polish and never in my 22 years of owning bikes have I ever had to replace a fork seal. Not even on my dirtbike.

ok I misunderstood you. I understand "stunts" on the dirt bike. they were designed to take that kind of "beating".