Total Motorcycle Community Forums

Posted: **Sun Jun 19, 2005 10:32 am**

really ? why is that?

Posted: **Sun Jun 19, 2005 11:29 am**

Toyuzu wrote:The SV 650 is on the list of beginner bikes.

I second that. While I stand firm in my belief that the YZF600 would be a fine first motorcycle, if it were me I'd go for the SV650 simply because it's a standard. I've ridden a Honda CBR600F4i and didn't care for leaning on the tank, and it made me wrists hurt something awful. But my NightHawk 700SC was quick, responsive, and offered all day comfort after the addition of the Corbin seat. And it's my belief that the SV650 would be a similar ride.

Posted: **Sun Jun 19, 2005 11:53 am**

ah i've lusted after the 700S incarnation of nighthawk since b4 i could even consider purchasing a motorcycle. I'm still looking for one, but they all seem to be trashed these days....

>>>>"I currently have a YZF600 and I wouldnt suggest it as a first bike."

really ? why is that?

bcoz that moto is completely GONZO!!!! and like everyone has already said, it will be just waiting for you to make some trivial mistake, or error in attention to punish you severely.
bikes have their own sort of rudimentary consiousness, and they either like you or they don't. A sportsbike has REALLY high standards.....it won't like you unless you really know how to treat her. And it's not a matter of just being a gentleman;sometimes they might misinterperet you;re 'inputs' and will really thrash the living F__K out of you if you aren't METICULOUSLY APT!!!!Which one certainly isn't when they begin at the task of motorcycling.....So swallow you pride and realize that you really really really could die or be so hurt you wish you could die from ANY bike's bad attitude....

Posted: **Tue Jun 21, 2005 5:45 am**

Humm, seems like this thead could benefit from official Total Motorcycle and Yamaha advice.

Yamaha officially says:

The YZF600R is not intended for novice or inexperienced riders.
http://www.totalmotorcycle.com/photos/2 ... ZF600R.htm

Total Motorcycle says:

TMW agrees 100% with Yamaha. The Yamaha YZF600R is a great 2nd or later bike, but not recommened for the average beginner. Try the 500cc sportbikes like the: Ninja EX500 and Suzuki GS500F. Think of the YZF600R as a very advanced starter bike. Sure some can learn on it (or even larger bikes), but to develop your riding skills at a faster and far more comfortable level, skip ALL the 600cc sportbikes.

Mike

Posted: **Tue Jun 21, 2005 9:12 am**

So, NuRida, if you're under 5'3" tall and you're "really nervous and skittish" feel free to buy a 250cc moped to learn on (or up to and including a Vulcan 500)...otherwise the SV650 makes the list of great beginner bikes that are very forgiving and difficult to out-grow.

In other words, against the advice of others, do NOT exclude 600cc+ bikes from your shopping list.

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Rider Magazine's Advice on beginner bikes:

Your first motorcycle: What to consider
Credit to: Genevieve Schmitt - riderreport.com

Note: These are only general suggestions of motocycles to try out in each category. Some bikes may not be right for everybody. Use this list as merely a starting point for exploring a manufacturer’s particular line of motorcycles.

Scenario #1
You passed the MSF class, but just barely. You’re still reeeaaallly nervous and skittish. You’re on the smaller side, too , 5 feet 3 inches and under, and most all motorcycles feel really big to you. Here are some suggestions (2001 models listed, MSRP, dry weight, seat height):

• Buell Blast 500cc, $4,395, 360 lbs., 27.5 inches
• Honda Nighthawk 250cc, $3,399, 287 lbs., 29.3 inches
• Honda Rebel 250cc, $2,999, 306 lbs., 26.6 inches
• Kawasaki Eliminator 125cc, $2,499, 282 lbs., 26.8 inches
• Kawasaki Vulcan 500, $4,699, 439 lbs., 28.1 inches
• Suzuki GZ250, $2,999, 302 lbs., 28.0 inches
• Yamaha Virag• 250, $3,399, 301 lbs., 27.0 inches

Advice: Many people who start on a lightweight, smaller motorcycle find they outgrow it within six months. A smaller motorcycle is still the way to go until you feel comfortable to move to a bigger bike. Many people will buy a used motorcycle knowing they will eventually trade up. Insurance is less expensive on a used bike, plus if you drop it, you won’t care too much about dinging it.

Scenario #2
You breezed through the MSF class. Riding a motorcycle came easier to you than you thought. You know you can handle a "bigger" bike, but everyone’s telling you to start small. Here are some suggestions (2001 models listed, MSRP, dry weight, seat height):

• Harley-Davidson Sportster 883, $5,595, 489 lbs., 28.0 inches
• Honda Shadow VLX 600cc, $4,999, 445 lbs., 25.6 inches
• Honda Shadow Spirit 750, $5,999, 496 lbs., 26.6 inches
• Honda Magna 750cc, $7,499, 505 lbs., 28.0 inches
• Kawasaki Vulcan 750, $6,099, 483 lbs., 28.9 inches
• Suzuki 650 Savage, $4,299, 350 lbs., 27.6 inches
• Suzuki Marauder 800cc, $5,999, 456 lbs., 27.6 inches
• Suzuki 800 Intruder, $6,399, 443 lbs., 27.6 inches
• Yamaha V Star Custom 650cc, $5,599, 460 lbs., 25.6 inches

Advice: A 600cc and higher motorcycle is considered an aggressive entry-level motorcycle, or a step-up motorcycle for those once-skittish beginners. Many riders will find this motorcycle to be their end-all bike. All the manufacturers offer a host of accessories that enable the rider to customize the bike. Other riders may find they grow out of this size within a year or two. It’s all a matter of personal taste. For the money, though, you generally get a lot of motorcycle in this category.

Scenario #3
You breezed through the MSF class and found you’re not really into cruiser style motorcycles, plus they just seem so low to the ground for you. You’d rather start on a standard, street-style motorcycle. Here are some suggestions (2001 models listed, MSRP, dry weight, seat height):

• BMW R 1150 R (2002 model), $9,999, 525 lbs., 30.3 inches
• Buell Cyclone M2 Low 1200cc, $8,995, 435 lbs., 27.5 inches
• Ducati Monster 600, $5,995, 392 lbs., 29.1 inches
• Honda Nighthawk 750, $5,799, 463 lbs., 30.9 inches
• Kawasaki W650, $6,599, 434 lbs., 31.5 inches
• Kawasaki ZR-7S, $5,999, 445 lbs., 31.5 inches
• Suzuki GS500, $4,399, 381 lbs., 31.1 inches
• Suzuki SV650, $5,799, 363 lbs., 31.7 inches
• Triumph Legend 900cc, $7,799, 473 lbs., 28.5 inches
• Yamaha FZ1 1000cc, $8,499, 455 lbs., 32.3 inches

Advice: Standard, street-style motorcycles tend to have higher seat heights to allow for more ground clearance. Plus, they come in a variety of displacements. A shorter-inseamed person should be a confident rider before hopping on one of these motorcycles.

Scenario #4
Motorcycles have been in your life a long time. Perhaps your dad and brother rode, and maybe you rode dirt bikes as a kid, but you’ve only recently taken the MSF class to ride on the street. You feel confident you can ride just about anything and height isn’t an issue for you. Here are some suggestions (2001 models listed, MSRP, dry weight, seat height):

• BMW R 1200 C, $14,500, 565 lbs.(wet weight), 29.1 inches
• Harley-Davidson Dyna Super Glide 1450cc, $11,470, 612 lbs., 26.5 inches
• Harley-Davidson Dyna Low Rider 1450cc, $14,595, 614 lbs., 25.2 inches
• Harley-Davidson Sportster 1200, $7,895, 491 lbs., 28.9 inches
• Honda Shadow Spirit 1100cc, $7,999, 553 lbs., 28.7 inches
• Honda Sabre 1100cc, $8,199, 573 lbs., 27.2 inches
• Kawasaki Vulcan 800, $6,299, 496 lbs., 28.0 inches
• Kawasaki Vulcan 800 Drifter, $7,499, 547 lbs., 29.9 inches
• Suzuki Intruder Volusia 800cc, $6,599, 526 lbs., 27.6 inches
• Yamaha V Star 1100 Custom, $7,899, 571 lbs., 27.0 inches

Advice: Cruisers that are 800cc and above are for new riders who possess the three M’s muscle, mental confidence, and miles under them — perhaps from riding on a dirt bike. There are a variety of motorcycles with varying seat heights in this category. Ironically, the more powerful and bigger the bike, the lower the seat height (big touring bikes excluded). If you think you can handle a bigger bike right out of the gate, you’re less likely to trade it in as you gain in experience.

Scenario #5
You took the MSF class and realize you aren’t into cruisers. Sportbikes are what gets you going. Here are some suggestions (2001 models list,MSRP, dry weight, seat height):

-Kawasaki Ninja 250R, $3,299, 304 lbs., 29.3 inches
-Kawasaki Ninja 500R, $5,099, 388 lbs., 30.5 inches

Advice: There aren’t too many "beginner" sportbikes — beginner being defined as low seat height and/or small displacement. Kawasaki is the only manufacturer currently producing a 250cc sportbike, a true entry-level machine in this category. From there, you’re stuck with 500cc and 600cc machines.
-------------------------------------------------------

Posted: **Tue Jun 21, 2005 9:40 am**

zootech: Thanks for the info from Rider Magazine. I do appreciate posting it for others to read.

Now for my personal opinions...

While I don't agree 100% with the above list, I do see where they are going with their advice.

But..

I just cannot agree with them on 50% of their choices. Some of the models listed are just too extreme, heavy, powerful or all of the above. A 500+lbs motorcycle is not for the beginner, nor is a motorcycle with more than 70hp. Following their list A LOT of motorcyclists are going to get down right hurt or even killed in their first year. If that sounds like I'm scaring new riders then it should sound like that! If a new rider on a FZ1 isn't hurt or killed in their first year then likely they won't enjoy riding that bike too much to enjoy motorcycling (the whole point of doing it).

I'll stick with what Yamaha and the majority of riders are suggesting, under 600cc for non-cruisers and under 800cc for cruisers. There is an extremely good reason behind it and that's to lenghten your riding career and to gain riding skills before moving up to larger bikes.

I ride an old 500lb XJ650R standard with 70-80hp and there is no way I'd put a beginner on it before they rode for atleast 1 year. I also rode a FZ1 and that bike is definately not for beginners. My first bike out of MSF was a 83 Honda Magna V30 (V4 - 500cc) and it was too much for me at the time and that sure wasn't fun at all.

Call me nutz.

But I'm interesting in keeping motorcyclists alive as long as possible to enjoy the wonderfully fun world of motorcycling... Plus, what is the rush to upgrade so fast? The small bikes are light and a lot of fun to push to their limits over the bigger ones.

I wouldn't give up my 1 year on the CB400 (396cc) twin I learned on for anything. A lot of fun that bike was because it was so confidence inspiring, light and powerful enough to do the highway but keep you out of serious trouble too.

Mike.

Posted: **Tue Jun 21, 2005 11:10 am**

Actually I have a stupid idea, check your local bargain finder or head over to www.buysell.ca (bargain finder local website up here) and count how many 600cc + sport bikes are for sale models ranging from the year 2000-2005 with under 3000km on them. Now how many of them come with a helmet/jacket/gloves etc.

Over 1/2 of the entries look like this. I wonder why.

Posted: **Tue Jun 21, 2005 11:20 am**

Sevulturus wrote:Actually I have a stupid idea, check your local bargain finder or head over to www.buysell.ca (bargain finder local website up here) and count how many 600cc + sport bikes are for sale models ranging from the year 2000-2005 with under 3000km on them. Now how many of them come with a helmet/jacket/gloves etc.

Over 1/2 of the entries look like this. I wonder why.

Likely because they can afford the latest and greatest and all of the gear to go along with it. The nature of these beasts is planned obsolecence: gotta have the coolest thing going for that year. If you can afford it and thats what you want, why not????

Posted: **Tue Jun 21, 2005 11:42 am**

High_Side wrote:
Sevulturus wrote:Actually I have a stupid idea, check your local bargain finder or head over to www.buysell.ca (bargain finder local website up here) and count how many 600cc + sport bikes are for sale models ranging from the year 2000-2005 with under 3000km on them. Now how many of them come with a helmet/jacket/gloves etc.

Over 1/2 of the entries look like this. I wonder why.
Likely because they can afford the latest and greatest and all of the gear to go along with it. The nature of these beasts is planned obsolecence: gotta have the coolest thing going for that year. If you can afford it and thats what you want, why not????

Or they managed to scrape 3000km out of 4 to 5 years and decided they were terrified of them. And sold the whole kit just to get it out of the garage.

My personal favorites are the ones that have, "never touched rain."

Posted: **Tue Jun 21, 2005 12:44 pm**

totalmotorcycle wrote: I ride an old 500lb XJ650R standard with 70-80hp and there is no way I'd put a beginner on it before they rode for atleast 1 year. I also rode a FZ1 and that bike is definately not for beginners. My first bike out of MSF was a 83 Honda Magna V30 (V4 - 500cc) and it was too much for me at the time and that sure wasn't fun at all.

Call me nutz. But I'm interesting in keeping motorcyclists alive as long as possible to enjoy the wonderfully fun world of motorcycling... Plus, what is the rush to upgrade so fast? The small bikes are light and a lot of fun to push to their limits over the bigger ones. I wouldn't give up my 1 year on the CB400 (396cc) twin I learned on for anything. A lot of fun that bike was because it was so confidence inspiring, light and powerful enough to do the highway but keep you out of serious trouble too.

Mike.

I understand your point...and even I have said the best case scenario is for someone to learn on dirt (I myself took my first motorcycle ride on a Ninja 600). But the SV650 is consistently rated one of the best beginner bikes for a reason...it's light, easy to manage, and the power delivery is smooth and predictable, with no sudden surges of power. The YZF600, on the other hand, does have a wicked top-end, and the serious forward bias would not be my idea of a fun way to learn to ride, BUT...I have seen an absolute first-time biker jump on a 1000cc Honda Hawk and treat it with respect, fear, and maturity and grow to be a very avid cyclist in less than two years. And I myself learned on bikes that wouldn't make Rider Magazine's list due to either weight or power. Perhaps you err on the side of caution (nothing wrong with that), but all too often what motivates "experienced" bikers to steer a newbie to something like a Rebel 250 is dislike of the idea of seeing someone else learning on a sweeter ride than they learned on or even currently own. I also think too many bikers give themselves too much credit for riding in the first place. Yes, it takes skill, dexterity, balance, and a certain level of mechanical aptitude to ride. But my freakin' mom has been riding since before I was born and, not to come down on my own mother, but she doesn't have so much as a GED. Fact of the matter is, a LOT of people ride and a whole lot more could if they wanted to. We're not special because we do it, we're blessed because we are physically and financially able, and because there are American men and women in Iraq defending our freedom and safety to do so.

Consider each newbie to the sport on a case-by-case basis. There are some folks I know that could ride for the next twenty years and I STILL wouldn't put them on an SV650. But to denounce the 600cc class all-together, for all newbies, makes little to no sense. Production bikes are rolling off the assembly line with engines in excess of 2,000cc's nowadays! I wouldn't be surprised to see 250cc bikes banned from the interstate eventually. I know I sure as hell wouldn't go there with one! My 500+ pound NightHawk could barely stay upright next to semis or in crosswinds as it was! I can't imagine how it would be on a 350lb bike running near redline to keep up with traffic!

Total Motorcycle Community Forums

YZF 600 as a starter?