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*sigh* Putting my money where my mouth is

Posted: Tue Apr 12, 2005 6:18 pm
by Skier
I've always been telling people how they need to replace their helmet if it takes a dive onto a hard surface more than about 3 feet or so. And what happens on Sunday, less than an hour before a group ride in perfect 60 degree weather? My helmet leaps off the mirror on my bike and smacks the pavement. :frusty:

It looks like it just mashed on the visor, but I didn't see the thing fall, so I can't be sure. So, $100 later, a replacement is on the way, same make/model/color. I'm hedging my bets that the helmet is ok for now, though, due to the locations of the scuff marks and the fact my bike is how I get to campus, but the lid is being replaced.

If there's one thing I learned, it's I'm glad I didn't spring for that $500 Arai! :shock:

I was just about to get a nice tank bag for my ride, too. Ah well, that's the way things go!

Posted: Thu Apr 14, 2005 7:24 am
by Keyoke
Know the feeling only too well - mine's taken a nose-dive onto pavement, will be replaced shortly....

Posted: Thu Apr 14, 2005 10:12 am
by Skier
Well, the helmet I ordered hasn't even hit the store where it's going to ship from yet. Ordered it on Sunday and it's now Thursday. So on Saturday I'm going to sneak down to a bike shop and try some helmets on down there and most likely step up to a nicer fitting helmet with more venting. Then I'll have a spare in case I drop another one. 8)

Posted: Thu Apr 14, 2005 10:25 am
by Keyoke
Sounds like a good plan - think I might get an extra budget helmet, just as a stop-gap if i drop mine again....

Posted: Thu Apr 14, 2005 11:21 am
by Meanie
Why do you feel the need to buy a new one when you drop it? There is a lot of fear mongering about dropped helmets.

This is a problem because no one can ever guarantee that a helmet has not sustained any damage in a drop. How many 'little' drops affect the helmet' s ability to protect the wearer in the event of that one major impact?

Manufacturers and safety authorities are bound to err on the side of caution and to advise that the helmet should be replaced if it has sustained an impact. This is because they cannot take the risk of saying 'that it is alright to re-use it after the drop'.

Also Read this >> http://www.timberwoof.com/motorcycle/SnellLabsTour/

Of course, there will always be those with some sense of paranoia who will never buy the notion of a dropped helmet being undamaged. Bottom line, it's your money.

Posted: Fri Apr 15, 2005 11:34 am
by Skier
Meanie wrote:Why do you feel the need to buy a new one when you drop it? There is a lot of fear mongering about dropped helmets.

This is a problem because no one can ever guarantee that a helmet has not sustained any damage in a drop. How many 'little' drops affect the helmet' s ability to protect the wearer in the event of that one major impact?

Manufacturers and safety authorities are bound to err on the side of caution and to advise that the helmet should be replaced if it has sustained an impact. This is because they cannot take the risk of saying 'that it is alright to re-use it after the drop'.

Also Read this >> http://www.timberwoof.com/motorcycle/SnellLabsTour/

Of course, there will always be those with some sense of paranoia who will never buy the notion of a dropped helmet being undamaged. Bottom line, it's your money.
Huh, that link does a pretty good job convincing me my helmet is probably ok. But probably isn't good enough for me, and besides, it's a great excuse to think about upgrading my lid.

Posted: Fri Apr 15, 2005 7:48 pm
by QuietMonkey
Yep, as Meanie wrote, I'd say more info may lead you to reconsider your thoughts on this.

From the info given to me and my experience the shell (primarily fiberglass/kevlar/carbon composites; or thermoplastic alloys, and even newer polycarbonates nowadays) can EASILY withstand a drop from several feet on a hard surface when UNWEIGHTED (i.e. YOUR HEAD IS NOT IN IT with your body attached which adds MORE weight plus leverage to the impact).

Some additional background:

In a normal crash situation, it's the momentum (speed of bike, and weight of your head and body) that the external shell transfers to the internal liner and causes the main damage to the helmet: the INTERNAL liner once compressed may not protect your head adequately a second time around, AND it's only a portion of that liner which is compromised. So it's sort of like playing russian roulette after that. You raise the odds against you.

Of course the harder the crash the more damage to the external shell will occur, OR if it hits a fairly sharp object (as it's ability to spread the load is pushed to the limit here - i.e. sharp pointy rocks could really test a helmet -- it's the same as being hit with a fist/foot or the point of a knife or pen --ouch! puncture!)

The shell can certainly be compromised and damaged, but think about it logically. You can always test a little with an old helmet too ;-) just for kicks. Also I'd say some more experience in crashing (I'll get to that in a minute ;)) will go a long way to changing your thoughts on this.

Often you can feel the compressed area of the helmet liner after a hard crash. It' really a very simple device. It's primarily the internal polystyrene liner which compresses allowing more time to abosorb the load and decelerate thus saving your head.

It's helmet uses muc the same basic principals as a packing box for a monitor or other electronic component. a) box, b) polystyrene. Try punching, kicking, abusing the "styrofoam" liner in the packing box. The liner in a helmet is similar, but "tuned" for it's intended purpose (speed, weight, head, etc.)

The outer shells of helmets are quite durable and in my experience (primarily roadracing, but also off-road riding (including few races), ice racing, street etc... over 15 years in total) + several years working in the motorcycle industry, speaking directly to helmet reps, etc. (yada yada yada).. and having crashed multiple times while roadracing, and off-road, and a few on the street, etc.. and seen several peoples lids after crashes, etc... One of my last crashes resulted in a concussion... and having thrown away several helmets from a various crashes. It is more difficult to detect damage to the outer shell, but the outer shell is much more durable than the inner liner, so basically what I am saying is that when you have an impact that makes you think twice, or you have a couple smaller impacts than by experience you can gauge when to toss it out. Better safe than sorry for sure, but don't go over the edge with the "i dropped it, it's toast" idea. It's very wrong, and if I felt a helmet was to be tossed after a small drop, i certainly wouldn't trust the damn thing on my head in an REAL crash situation. think about it. This isn't the 60s. Just as the bikes have improved dramatically, so has all the gear. Helemts are simple in concept but have a great deal of refinement and technolgy behind them.

i think you will find that you need to do a retake on your thoughts on helmet construction, crashes, etc.. the reality in my opinion is very different from what you are thinking.

The majority of my helmets were Arai, with a few Shoei's... because FIT is also important in day-to-day comfort as well as a helmets ability to protect in a crash. It's better to regret throwing away an Arai, rather than having a brain injury. $500 is CHEAP insurance, and so is $1000. The day-to-day comfort is also AWESOME, plus really excellent visors, etc... overall quality.

Here's an important quote from that bit from the Snell article which reiterates what I am saying, "A motorcycle helmet works by crushing the expanded polystyrene (EPS, or Styrofoam) layer, absorbing and slowing down the impact. If a helmet doesn't slow down the impact, the energy gets transmitted to the skull and brain inside and to whatever it hits."

anyway. long post, but i feel it's justified. hope it gives you something to think about. Consider checking out the helmet manufacturers web-sites, and other GOOD sources of info, like Snell, DOT, CE (European spec) info... etc. i think in the UK there is another helmet safety certification as well, something like BFA as I recall.

//monkey

Posted: Sat Apr 16, 2005 12:19 am
by DustyJacket
Suppose your helmet gets damaged and you replace it.
Do you just toss the damaged one in the trash, or do you try to chop it up a bit so no one else will try to use it?

Posted: Sat Apr 16, 2005 7:39 am
by Keyoke
Generally just toss it - once it's in my bin, i can't see anyone going near it!

Posted: Wed Apr 20, 2005 2:49 pm
by Mag7C
All this talk of helmet damage is giving me the urge to do some "durability tests" on my old spare helmet :twisted: .