Total Motorcycle Community Forums

so i had a court date back in may for going 60 in a 45.......i'm sure alot of you remember......i went to the court and they said that they could not a find a ticket under my driver's license....so all i got from they was a "notice of appearance" which basically says that i showed up to court on that date.

anyway, now, amost 5 months later i get a letter in the mail saying:

Dear Provisional California Driver,

Please take a moment to review this notice. it may save your driver license.

You may not be aware that california law defines some provisional drivers as "negligent". Traffic convictions and responsible accidents add up to points on your driving record. Get 2 Points in 12 months and you are likely to have your license restricted to operating a motor vehicle with a licensed parent, guardian, spouse, or a licensed driver age 25 or older.

We are concerned with your driving record and want to assist you to avoid being classified as a negligent driver.

Convictions:
Violation date: May
Conviction Date: July
Section violated: 22350 VC...which turns out to be:
http://www.dmv.ca.gov/pubs/vctop/d11/vc22350.htm
Points: 1....WTF!

This action is independent of any other action taken by the court or this department.

Department of Motor Vehicles
Division of driver safety

so i was not guilty since they could not find my ticket....so why the hell do i have a point on my record now?

this is what scares me:

This action is independent of any other action taken by the court or this department.

does that mean that they don't care of wether i'm guilty or not?

P.S. i really wasn't guilty anyway...even if they had my ticket in their database.

Uh-oh, sounds like a situation. Is there contact infromation on the letter? If so, I'd call immediately and find out where to send a copy of that receipt you have for showing up. If possible, I would hand deliver the copy of the receipt and a copy of the letter you just received, and carry a video camera in the other hand. Keep a smile on your face and be exceedingly polite.

If hand delivery is not possible, I'd mail it via registered mail, return receipt requested. I'd wait a week for a response, then start calling and/or visiting every day until the matter was resolved to my satisfaction. If I couldn't get the matter resolved with the phone person or counter person, I'd ask to speak to a supervisor. A lowly clerk may not know the procedure to make corrections, so requesting the help of a supervisor actually is doing the clerk a favor. Heck, there may be no procedures in place to make corrections. If the supervisor can't resolve the issue, ask for his/her supervisor. Go right up the cahin of command, all the way to the main carcass who heads the DMV.

My experience is that government workers will continually stonewall until you give up rather than make an effort to correct the situation. Just be polite to everyone you speak with, and as each can't bring resolution, ask to speak with a supervisor. I've found government workers really like to pass the buck. If anywhere along the path to resolution I felt someone was stonewalling or being uncooperative, I would contact my state representative and state senator. If that didn't work out, I'd hire an attorney and file a lawsuit against the DMV. You have acted in good faith, and you are being punished for an accusation without due process, a major civil rights violation.

What Qwerty said...

Welcome to the same bureaucratic nightmare that many, many people have shared with you in some way or another. Unfortunately for you, you'll just have to work with the system to try and straighten out this mess. There's not much else you can do. Start calling around to find out what to do first, keep a paper trail of everything, keep a record of names and times when you speak to folks on the phone with an accurate account of what has been said to you... it sucks, but here you are. Good luck. I hope you get it straightened out.

Cheers,
Loonette

Ah, the dreaded error. Dealing with the city govt will be a pain. You have a notice of showing up (you still have it right? - you will be amazed at how easily documents that prove their mistakes find themselves deleted from their systems) but does it say that you were found not guilty? Could be that the mistake was done when you showed up to court, or even if it had been filed under a different license number by the officer and later corrected by some pencil pusher.

This is just a speeding ticket right? More than likely they'll just tack on points to your license and submit the fine to a collection agency, who will then begin to of course hound you (which is what this: "This action is independent of any other action taken by the court or this department." could mean).

Once it goes to collections, you'll be better off paying it. Collection agencies in this country are crooks and they know it...whether you owe or not, they'll just harass you until you pay knowing full well that the amount is usually far less than it would cost you to defend it. Even when the courts order it off, it sometimes just gets sold to someone else and you have to start over.

Worse part, they can just print up anything they want if they have your information (which of course the DMV does). If you dont have your copy, you are stuck with whatever error they made. I did business with a phone company once, cancelled, paid the last bill and moved out, and 2 years later got a collection for $50 for service when I wasnt even living there. Of course no one cared, and even the phone company said, "well, we had you as cancelling on such and such date, not this other date, whether you lived there or not doesn't matter because you still had the phone in your name"...since they never give you 'cancellation paperwork' and most refuse down to the supervisor not to fax you or send you ANYTHING, you are at their mercy.

The real kicker? A year later I got ANOTHER bill from them for a smaller amount. I just had to pay. It stopped after that, but I'm telling you, the law doesn't work for ordinary folks like us when dealing with huge companies and small bills. I even called lawyers the second time around to ask advice, they told me to pay it to protect my credit because no one on earth would represent me for such a small amount.

Welcome to the real world! You're going to get screwed all the time, best get used to it

-----

PS: Are you sure its really from the DMV? I got a letter last week from a unnamed address that told me my homestead exemption had not been filed and I needed to send $35 for the privilege. Freaked me out for a minute, and the whole letter seemed to be legit. But at the end in fine print it said "this is independent of any tax homestead exemption you may have filed"...have to scrutinize these things carefully....I dont know how they get away with this, but its legal to trick people I suppose.

I would check with the county clerks office they are usually pretty helpful when it comes to this sort of thing, well as helpful as a goverment worker can be.

My girlfriend's apartment building tried to charge her for electricity after she moved out, even though she cancelled the service two weeks prior, and the power company said that the apartment building ordered it to stay on.

So I went and talked to them... and by talked, I mean it turned into a yelling match started by them, so I stood outside with a sign and picketted new people looking to move in and told them about all the crap that the apartment staff pulled (a lot more than just the power bill).

They got really mad at me. I eventually won, and filed complaints with the better business bureau, had our University legal services dept call them, and pretty much was a huge pain in their "O Ring".

This was all over $100. They caved. They also learned who not to f*** with.

But how many people would go to these lengths for that amount of money? Not many! These crooks get away with it all the time.

If memory serves, you were not watching your speedo at all, so how do you know you weren't guilty?

Hm...we had a similar pain when we tried to have the power company shut off my mom's house -- after she passed away in the month of January. (ten years ago) The power company tried to say they were required by law to keep the service on in the winter months, in Michigan. We told them that was fine, but we were pulling the main breaker to the house, that the account-holder was deceased, and they weren't going to get any money. Period. IIRC it worked.

Sevulturus wrote:If memory serves, you were not watching your speedo at all, so how do you know you weren't guilty?

I'm sure he means they said he was not guilty by the fact that they had no incident on file.

I'm not familiar with Cali law. Assuming that this isn't a mistake it sounds like this is some sort of administrative sanction seperate from the law.

As an example, if you receive a ticket in Connecticut you can opt to pay it thru the mail and not receive any points on your license. Cops always point this out as like its some kind of benefit. However, if you do that its still a conviction and the dmv don't care about points. Get 3 convictions in one year and license is gone.

Going back to your situation is sounds like the dmv thinks you were convicted of some violation and now wants to apply a sanction.
You need some official paperwork from the court showing their wasn't any convictions. Even with that good luck working with the dmv. Personally, I would rather give birth to a flaming porcupine then deal with them.