Gear question ... more techincal really ... Denier thickness

[tanitatt]

Okay, what level of protection would you consider minimum? Obviously leather is one of the best and denim jeans is pretty much like being naked, but what about this whole Denier thing? Is 500 a good enough level? Or do you really need something more than that? 600? 1000?

The reason I ask, is because I'm looking to get new pants. Right now I use a pair of Slider Jeans (has kevlar in them) with a-star shin/knee pads under. I really need to get something a little more serious, but living in Houston mean getting something breathable.

Looking around at the usual suspects I notice a serious lack in actual information as to the strength of their pants materials, but I stumbled onto Olympia and like what I see, but all their pants seem to be made of 500 Denier Cordura ... is that good enough protection? I checked out Motoport, but their stuff is SOOOO expensive.

Thanks
Thomas

[jonnythan]

The denier of a fiber is in no way a measure of its strength or durability.

Denier is literally a measure of the mass in grams of a 9000 yards of the fiber. A fabric made from 1000 denier nylon will have threads that are twice as heavy as a fabric made from 500 denier nylon. However, that in reality doesn't say an awful lot about the strength of the fabric itself.

Cordura, a brand of nylon, is pretty strong stuff. 500 denier Cordura is probably sufficient, but it's certainly not going to last as long grinding on pavement as leather or Kevlar.

[ninja79]

Denier is linear mass density. 1000 denier cordura will have greater density than 500 denier cordura, and therefore will take longer to wear through when you are sliding on the pavement, simply because there is more material to grind. However, this must be an apples to apples comparison: you can't make the same conclusion about 500 denier cordura vs. 1000 denier polyester.

Check motoport's guide for relative tear strength and abrasion resistance of different materials. It is almost guaranteed to be biased, but should at least give you a general idea of where different materials stand.

[jonnythan]

Denier is linear mass density. 1000 denier cordura will have greater density than 500 denier cordura, and therefore will take longer to wear through when you are sliding on the pavement, simply because there is more material to grind. However, this must be an apples to apples comparison: you can't make the same conclusion about 500 denier cordura vs. 1000 denier polyester.

Check motoport's guide for relative tear strength and abrasion resistance of different materials. It is almost guaranteed to be biased, but should at least give you a general idea of where different materials stand.

Linear mass density is not the same as density. Linear mass density is mass/length. Regular density is mass/volume.

A 1000 denier fiber can be less dense than a 500 denier fiber. It just weighs twice as much per yard.

A single 1000 denier fiber can take longer to wear through than an equivalent 500 denier fiber, but a fabric made of 500 denier fibers can be significantly more wear resistant than a fabric made of 1000 denier fibers.

Clear as mud, huh?

Bottom line is that you cannot tell much about a fabric by looking at the denier of the fiber used to make it. It's like saying that a 1000cc bike is faster than a 600cc bike. It certainly can be true if you're comparing a Ninja 500 to an R1, but it's not true if you're comparing a Sportster to a GSX-R600.

[ninja79]

A 1000 denier fiber can be less dense than a 500 denier fiber. It just weighs twice as much per yard.

hmmm.... good point. According to the wiki definition denier = mass / 9000 meters. Which means that they don't take the thickness of the fiber into account. So a 1000 denier fiber could just be twice as thick as 500 denier but not really any more dense in the traditional sense. Which means that the thread count would be lower in a 1000 denier fabric (if I understand correctly, this is the point you were trying to make).

According to motoport's guide greater denier cordura does have greater abrasion resistance, but the relationship between denier and abrasion cycles is definitely non-linear. This is consistent with the above explanation.

[jonnythan]

According to motoport's guide greater denier cordura does have greater abrasion resistance, but the relationship between denier and abrasion cycles is definitely non-linear. This is consistent with the above explanation.

That's for a single-thickness identical weave of the exact same fiber in different thicknesses.

When you start talking about different types of fiber, different compounds of nylon, different weave types and density, then the denier of the fiber means less and less.

I have a softshell climbing jacket whose outer layer is made of a 200 denier stretch nylon fabric and it's more abrasion and puncture resistant than what is typically sold as 1000 denier ballistic nylon.

[Fast Eddy B]

mr tanitatt, i would like to help you with your gear question. it is a good questions and one i have helped many riders with in the past. you should do like i do and ride with the as many deniers as you can ride with at one time i can ride with lot of denIERS some of them in my pannIERS. see if you can max your deniers everywhere you can your pants your jackets your helmets. valentino rossi has lots of these and you can tell he is a good rider but not as good as me it will take more than flashy pants to do that hope this helps.


Eddy

[flynrider]

Crackin' me up!

Too bad you can't make a living doing MotoF150 impressions.

[ninja79]

I didn't get it. what's the deal with motof150?

[Jadien]

let's not start the motof150 ish again....