New, don't even have to a bike yet...

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Drakan · #1 Unread post by **Drakan** » Fri Aug 10, 2007 11:50 am

WARNING: Long post for a newbie..

Alright, I'm Brett. I'm 17, turning 18 in October.
Before I even get a bike, I am going to do some research (Smart eh?)
But, before I even consider stuff, I want to examine my options. I want to wait for a bit before I get into this, just to decide if it's not a fad or anything.
Here's a bit of background history:
Well, I have taken a ride on a few bikes before, but I have never actually started and driven a real street bike. I have played with dirtbikes and mountain bikes, but never a real motorcycle. I know how to switch gears (down 1st, up 2nd-6th), I know clutch, braking, turns, and a few other skills from Downhill biking for almost a year now. I know counter-steering and such, but I am at a complete blank for all parts of a motorcycle. I worked in a Bicycle shop for 5 months, so I have bicycle knowledge (Forks, Disc Brakes, Suspension, Compression/Rebound, Sizing, Et Cetera) I know sizing of equipment (Helmet/pads) and the basics (Or so I guess...)
I know braking. Front brake is the stopping power, and rear brake is just for screwups, hard stops... You rarely use it, right?
Clutch and switching gears, I know it. I've rode dirt bikes a few times, and I know how to do a little bit.
I can size and dial my own stuff. I know what to get in a full face helmet, and how to setup a rear shock (monoshock not duals though) and I know the basics of the insides of a fork. I know disc brakes.
I DO NOT know engines. Period, I don't know what a carberator is, I can't even spell it right. I don't know the majority of street tires. I can true a bike wheel, but I imagine you don't true moto wheels.. I can setup disk brakes, hydraulic and cable-pull.. So, I do know a little of the basics. I can change the oil... Yay!
Now, I guess that's background. Should I throw it all out? Or is it applicable here?

Here's a few questions:
1. I don't have a bike. I've been researching around, and what seems to be the best is a Kawasaki Ninja 250/500. I want a bike that can last me a few years. Hopefully through college, until I can start making the big $$. I don't know CC numbers, so I am guessing 500 is pretty large for a starting bike, which is what I have read... I don't like the look of harleys/cruiser bikes.. I just.. bleh, don't like them. So I am looking for a sport bike, it seems. But, I don't want to get into racing. So, I think this will be good for now.
2. My uncle owns Arroyo Seco Raceway in New Mexico. Yes, yes, you're thinking: "Why hasn't this kid gotten into riding yet!?" Well, I don't get to go to New Mexico often, it's a 3 day car ride, and slightly more expensive to fly, so it's far off. Should I go out there next summer (On my own money) with my CAR, and use one of my grandparents/uncles ample bikes? My grandpa has 2 250 Lime Green Ninjas in his shed, and a multitude of 400-600cc bikes. I know, because I've seen

It's about an hour drive from my grandparents house to my uncles, and I'm sure they would be happy if I was to get into moto, especially if I picked them to be my tutors/mentors.
3. Should I take a moto skills course even though I am planning on going to NM? It's about 2 miles down the street at the NoVA campus in Sterling, and it's almost always empty. But, the price is $150. Plus registration at the DMV and buying a bike, it's starting to add up...
4. How do I convince my sister that I should do this? She's 15, and she is very against me doing this.. My mother should be Ok with it (I haven't really talked to her yet.. But she's grown up on bikes. She knows dangers and stuff and she could even teach me.)
5. How the hell do you get a class M designation on your lisence in VA? It's under 19? I'm almost 18, and I still have to wait 9mo with a learners to get one. And take a few tests. What is up with this, and am I correct in assuming 18 is too young!?
6. If I were to get a moto, how would I get it? Without a class M, I can't drive it. Do I need a truck to move it? (My friends do have trucks, and would be willing to help me move it.)
7. What should I wear padding wise? Obviously a leather jacket.. I can look good in them too

But, leather pants? They are a turn off for me.. Is there anything else, more breathable, or something less.. tight?
Assuming I am on a sport bike, I don't want to look like an idiot wearing full leathers and a helmet, looking like I should be on a cruiser, but I am not...
8. Are there any other moto'ers in NoVA that frequent this board?
9. Should I just wait until I am in college to do this, so my mom doesn't even know? Or, should I break it to her that I want to get a motorcycle, and that I will try my best to be safe?
10. Last one. Anything else I should know? Something I overlooked?

Well, thanks for reading this... Hopefully I can get some insight here.
-Brett

Septimus · #2 Unread post by **Septimus** » Fri Aug 10, 2007 12:54 pm

A few of your questions are not easily answered and there are many threads on some of the subjects. Here's a quick response:

Good job planning everything in advance and not jumping the gun. Your background will be of enormous benefit. I wouldn't throw everything about bicycles out the door -- in fact in our MSF course they said that if you ride a bicycle you will have an easier time. There's not a huge amount of mechanical crossover but if you are mechanically inclined enough to get that deep into cycling then you shouldn't have a problem re-learning the same ideas on a motorcycle.

The Ninja 250 and 500 are both great starter bikes. If $$$ is a big concern that stick with a 250 - it will do everything you will need a bike to do, is great to learn on, and you haven't just spent your life savings if you drop it. My first bike was (and is) a 500 but a 250 would've worked as well.

Can't answer your question about racing.

You should definitely take the MSF course, particularly if you are under 18. This probably ties into your question about getting your license in VA. You have to check your state's DMV to be sure (though maybe someone from VA here will tell you) but I think VA has fairly liberal motorcycle laws and the MSF course will waive both the written and road test for your M endorsement. Don't take my word for it, though.

No need to buy a bike before you get your license. If a great deal comes up, you either need something to haul it away in or else a licensed rider to drive it off the lot for you. But if you don't have either of those things, just wait till you get your license.

Gear is a huge topic and there is no straight answer. You can expect to spend at least $300 on gear (and that's if you go the budget route) and easily up to $1000. In descending order of importance (YMMV): Helmet, gloves, jacket, pants, boots. I don't like leather pants and have a pair of Joe Rocket Ballistic armored pants which are great for most weather conditions. If you ride in hot weather you may want to look into a textile or mesh jacket rather than leather. I prefer armored textile & mesh stuff over leather but there is a lot of good leather stuff out there and people will swear by it. It's as much personal preference as anything.

Don't try to hide it from your family. Show them you are doing it responsibly by taking the MSF course and even ask for their input in gear selection (even if you then disregard it) so they feel involved -- or so they at least had the chance to be involved if they turn out not to want anything to do with it.

It seems like you are avoiding just about all of the newbie mistakes (buying a huge bike, no gear, no skill training) and this forum is a gold mine of information. Just take it easy, maybe pick up Hough's "Proficient Motorcycling" if you want something to do while you wait for your MSF course -- it actually helped me with a couple concepts that the MSF course touches on but that Hough explains in much better detail.

There are plenty of other things you should know ... but you have your whole life to learn them!

good luck!

Fri Aug 10, 2007 1:44 pm

Not much for me to add other than :welcome4:

Be sure to use the forum search. It'll highlight the terms you're looking for and make the posts easier to scan.

Here are a few links to things that might get you started finding some answers:

Beginner's Guide
Stickies
Learn To Ride A Motorcycle page which is downloadable in PDF format (Created and maintained by Dragonhawk)
Helmet Fit Guideline by Lion_Lady

Good Luck, Have Fun and Stay Safe Out There!

BusaEater · #4 Unread post by **BusaEater** » Fri Aug 10, 2007 3:18 pm

Front brake is the stopping power, and rear brake is just for screwups, hard stops... You rarely use it, right?

Actually it's better to use both when stopping. For beginners though, at low speeds, I'd say just use the back brake until you get used to the bike. And yes you are right, the front brake is where most of your stopping power is.

I DO NOT know engines

Don't worry about that, a lot of experienced riders I know don't know anything about engines either.

The Ninja 500 would be a great starter bike.

Drakan · #5 Unread post by **Drakan** » Fri Aug 10, 2007 3:38 pm

Well, I already picked up the .pdf of the DMV guidelines and read all 80 pages. It was a hard read, but I did learn a lot. It seems I have to have my learners for 9 months before I can get a lisence. And, yes the course does cancel out the drivers test... only for 30 days. In a year I still have to re-take it.
So, I might just wait until I can go to my grandparents over the summer and learn with them, until I buy my first bike, because who knows, my grandpa owns a towing business. Thats how I got my car, I worked a summer for him. Maybe he would throw me a free moto if I worked another summer for him

But, in all seriousness, I don't think I'm ready to take the first step yet. I need to discuss with my mom some more, and possibly wait until I am at least 18 (Another few months)

So, if I am not heard from for a few months... This might be the reason

Edit: Here's an excerpt
If you have proof of successfully completing
a Virginia Rider Training Program prior to
July 1, 2007, you are exempt from holding
the motorcycle learner’s permit for 30 days
and from taking the motorcycle road skills
test for a period of two years from
completion date.
If you have proof of successfully completing
a Virginia Rider Training Program on or after
July 1, 2007, you are exempt from holding
the motorcycle learner’s permit for 30 days
and from taking the motorcycle knowledge
exam and the motorcycle road skills test for
a period of one year from completion date.
If you are under age 19, you must hold a
motorcycle learner’s permit for at least nine
months regardless of the date the Virginia
Rider Training Program is completed.

Septimus · #6 Unread post by **Septimus** » Fri Aug 10, 2007 3:58 pm

I read that to mean that you can apply for your license within 30 days and waive the test -- not that it just postpones the test for that long.

but what do I know.

#7 Unread post by **NWTrtle** » Fri Aug 10, 2007 5:58 pm

If you have proof of successfully completing
a Virginia Rider Training Program on or after
July 1, 2007, you are exempt from holding
the motorcycle learner’s permit for 30 days
and from taking the motorcycle knowledge
exam and the motorcycle road skills test for
a period of one year from completion date.
If you are under age 19, you must hold a
motorcycle learner’s permit for at least nine
months regardless of the date the Virginia
Rider Training Program is completed.

Actually, this is easy. Take the course when you are ready. It says you must have your permit for at least nine months, so you get your permit around the time you take the course. Then when the nine months is up, you take your proof of completion in and get your license (without retaking the written or skills tests). You just have to do it before a year from completing the course has passed.

Oh no.....did I just make it more complicated?

Drakan · #8 Unread post by **Drakan** » Sat Aug 11, 2007 3:06 am

That's what I understood, but the part about exempt from learners permit for 30 days, then it saying I have to have it for 9 months is confusing me... Do I have to have it for 9 months below 19, but above 19 you don't have to get a permit, because you took the skills test?
I pretty much get the gist of it.

Veda · #9 Unread post by **Veda** » Sat Aug 11, 2007 4:08 am

Welcome. It sounds like you are on the right track with your first post. So many young guys just hop on the prettiest bike and don't do a bit of research first.

My advice: take your time, read everything you can find about bikes and motorcycling, talk it over with your family and then make an educated decision about the next steps.

#10 Unread post by **NWTrtle** » Sat Aug 11, 2007 6:23 am

That's what I understood, but the part about exempt from learners permit for 30 days, then it saying I have to have it for 9 months is confusing me... Do I have to have it for 9 months below 19, but above 19 you don't have to get a permit, because you took the skills test?

The 30 days exemption is probably to allow time to go and get your permit or endorsement added. A lot of times it is difficult to get the time to take care of it. I would just get the permit and ignore the 30 day exemption so you get the nine months out of the way.