Total Motorcycle Community Forums

I hesitate to even write this, in hopes that I'll just eventually get over it...

I finally got my first bike, a 2002 Suzuki GZ250. It's not ready to ride yet, I still need a new battery and to do the title transfer and tag. I have been so psyched.

...and then I was reading a thread here a few nights ago and followed the link to ride2die.com, or whatever it is. Those photos absolutely scared the snot out of me. I have 2 small kids. I'm just going to use the bike to commute 5 miles or so to work, but now every time I look at it I think "this is the machine that's going to kill me." I have this gut-wrenching fear now whenever I think about going out on the road. This can't be healthy. Those photos were just so gruesome, and some were beyond that. I was choking back vomit.

I've taken the MSF course. I'm still acquiring safety gear, and plan to ride completely covered. I rode a moped and a trail bike as a kid, so I'm not completely new to this. I was so affected by that site I was ready to sell my bike the next day, and I haven't even ridden it yet. Of course I'm also questioning whether the risk is necessary. I don't want my boys to lose their father . And this is kind of against my wife's wishes, although she has tried her best to understand why I even want a bike in the first place.

Is this semi-normal? Have any of you gone through this before?

You can't live in fear. Check out my "deer" thread in this section. Freak accident, a little rash from not wearing armored pants and a busted clavicle. Know what I'm doing once this gets patched up? That's right, get right back in the saddle and ride some more.

If you wear the gear, you're way farther ahead than most cyclists without helmets, jackets and pants.

Ride or don't, but do yourself a huge favor and don't let an irrational fear paralyze you or keep you from doing what you want. For what it's worth, you can find some pretty horriffic automobile crashes too.

Edited to add:

I'm not saying you should ignore the risks completely, as they do exist. However, I am saying take sites like the one you mentioned with a grain of salt. Motorcycles aren't really too excessively much more dangerous than cars, but some people take great pleasure in trumpeting motorcycle fatalities while overlooking other forms of transportation which are also dangerous.

Furthermore, I submit that with proper gear on your motorcycle you'll probably be much safer than if you chose to ride a bicycle the 5 miles on the roads due to better visibility and less of a disparity of speed vs other traffic.

Tips for sane motorcycling:

• - Ignore Ride2die.com. Their whole purpose is to mess with peoples' heads, and it sounds like you're letting it work....
  
  - Do everything you can to manage risk. Wear all the gear. Get training. Get more training. Practice. Practice more. Read David Hough, Nick Ienatsch, Lee Parks, etc. Make sure your bike is in top condition at all time. Ride defensively. And relax..... it enhances your reaction time.
  
  - Then let matters take their course. Do you ski? Skydive? bungee jump, scuba dive, rock climb, etc? Play any sports? Do you operate power equipment? Do you drive a car? Go up and down stairs? You're at risk. If I eliminated all risk instead of managing it, I'd have a dull and sad life.

Hope it works out for ya.

Ignore Ride2die.com. Their whole purpose is to mess with peoples' heads

Yeah, I thought the same thing. Is their purpose to scare everyone away from motorcycles? I guess if you formed a website with nothing but grizzly pictures of people who died crossing the street you'd never want to cross the street again.

I understand what you're saying about risk. That is how I've always felt about it. That's exactly how I've defended it to my wife. I'm not as freaked about it as I was when I first saw the photos, but it's still there in the back of my mind . Just hoping for some encouragement .

Yes, sites like that exist to scare and disgust people. Keep in mind most people on there probably didn't have sufficient gear (Icn't say for sure as I'm not wasting my time opening the site).

I really don't understand why some people are beyond joyful about pointing out motorcycle incidents. Hard to say why some people hate bikes. The only two reasons I can think of are either the author's wife ran off with a biker or they're too chicken to get the training and try it out. They are jealous of those of us who aren't slaves to fear.

Hey Roncg you're not alone. Have I gone through this before? Heck I'm still going through it!! The first time I went out on the street I was freaked out big time. I'm relatively new to the sport and I'm still not 100% comfortable on the bike yet. I think your feelings are completely normal. Nothing wrong with a little bit of self doubt as long as it doesn't paralyze you.

As others have said you are doing all of the right things. You've taken the MSF and your mindset is focused on safety. Motorcycling is not for everyone. Nothing wrong with that. But don't let a website keep you from even getting out of the starting gate. Get the bike and ride it around your neighborhood before you hit the road. I would also suggest you do what I did, ride to work on the weekend so you can take your time and you can see what it's going to be like. The way I deal with my fear is to keep riding. Every time I go out I get a little bit better. You say you've taken the class and bought some gear. You owe it to yourself to at least give it a shot. If you find out it's not your thing hey at least you tried it. Take your time and your skills and confidence will improve.

No offense, and please don't take this the wrong way.

Riding is dangerous. It's much more dangerous than riding in a car. Some people can't quite handle that, and riding is not for everyone.

If you can manage the fear and put it out of your mind, go for it. If you can't, consider simply not riding.

I saw a video of theirs on youtube. It is effective propaganda, but that is just about it.

What you have to do is understand the numbers, and understand risks.

They show a lot of horrid accidents involving motorcycles on that site. What don't they show? That there are a lot more horrid accidents involving cars.

True, there are more cars on the road than motorcycles, so you do have some moderate increased risk exposure on a bike. There is no question about that. But how much more risk exposure? Go to the NHTSA site and gather some data. (which is what I did)

A lot of accidents involve drunk bikers. So, if you promise to never drink and ride - you can remove those fatalities from your risk exposure.

After removing some of the fatalities from the mix, you'll find that the risk of dying on a motorcycle is still greater than driving a car, but only marginally so...

You do need to remind yourself that even though you feel relatively safe in your car - 36,000 fatalities in cars every year. So, you are not safe in your car. You are slightly less safe on your motorcycle, if you concern yourself with safety.

Of course, I'm a noob, and I'm sure there are a lot of folks here who have been in accidents. It happens, and here is the kicker.

If you get in an accident in a car, you have a 30% chance of getting injured or dead. In a motorcycle you have more like a 80% chance of being injured of dying in an accident. The penalties for "procreating" up are a lot greater on a motorcycle.

I have a wife and two kids as well. While my boys love their daddy, if I die, they will continue with their lives. Will their lives be as easy if I die? No, certainly not. But is life about having an easy time of it? I actually don't think so.

I have a big problem with society as it is. It is so totally risk averse that it is almost disgusting. At the same token, they do things that are not risk averse and pretend about it and ignore the true risks.

If you read the Hough book, Proficient Motorcycling, he talks about risks. The whole book is really about risk management and riding a motorcycle.

Anyway, when people do things in groups they tend to do things that involve the least risk - or the least perceived risk. So, I love space and the exploration of the universe around us... And NASA is so risk averse it is a wonder they get anything done.

Risk aversion is crippling our society. If you ever read the book Dune or watched the movie, part of it is about the toughness of a society. There are some parallels to the Worm planet and the Middle East as well. But what I'm trying to get to is that the people in places like the Middle East, or Africa live much harder lives and have a lot of times a better understanding of risk. If an army of Middle Easterners found themselves here in the US and attacked our population at large, how many of us would be risk tolerant enough to even attempt to defend ourselves.

So, for me, I try to reduce my risk as much as possible when I ride. I always protect my space cushion in the front of me and this way I don't need to panic stop. If the person behind me is driving up my "O Ring" (as they frequently do) at the least they can see ahead of me and since I'm not panic stopping they don't have to have reflexes of the fastest human on Earth to stop in time not to hit me.

I ride with my incredibly bright jacket on, and a silver helmet. If they use the excuse that they couldn't see me, likely it is an excuse, because if you can't see me on the road you are either blind (or more likely) simply not looking and would have hit a car if it had been where I was at the time.

I'm not as experienced as many here, I've only logged 1100 or 1200 or so miles, but so far my experience has been that nothing has changed in my experience on a bike vs a car. People do stupid stuff, without question, but I don't think they are any stupider with me on a bike vs me in a car.

I work for a hospital, and in one of the OR rooms, there is a stapled bit of paper - an e-mail. It was a Suzuki Samurai, crashed head-on to a Tractor Trailer truck. It showed a few pictures of the body *recovery* process and its end results. It was dag nasty. Drive of the Suzuki was cut in half. Bits all over the place - he didn't fit in the body bag it was just all over.

Did this accident involve a motorcycle? No. Was it disgusting? Oh yeah. Does it happen more often in cars than bikes? Yep, but there are more cars on the roads than bikes, as I said.

Speed is also a major factor in accidents and fatalities. The faster you go, the less reaction time you have. The faster you go, the more force you have at time of impact.

Also, accidents spike up on week end nights, so avoid driving then if you have concerns and want to limit your risks.

Anyway, I could make stuff just like ride2die.com - about cars and purporting that buses are the safest mode of transport (which they are) and that anyone getting in a car is risking their life and have a 50% chance of dying any time they drive (untrue, but I could make it look that way, as they have in regard to motorcycling).

Enough, I type too much already and too fast. All that time when I couldn't make a dollar and ended up doing data entry means I can type a lot in a short period of time.

RhadamYgg

jonnythan wrote:No offense, and please don't take this the wrong way.
Riding is dangerous...

No offense taken . I have been ready to ride for years. This was the first thing that really threw me. What I was wanting to know more than anything is how common this feeling is. Do all bikers get it from time to time? I realize it may not be a fun thing to talk about, but like I said, I'm just looking for a little help.

I'm kind of miffed too at the tone that site takes (basically, you're stupid if you want to ride). It would be more effective I think if it focused on the safety awareness issue more, not on the "motorcycles are death traps" perspective .

I'm not going to get rid of the bike. In the least I'm going to invest some extra time in practicing again and getting comfortable on the bike. I think a lot of the reason I'm spooked is because I haven't been on the road yet, and it's hard to imagine what I'll do in certain situations and how I'll respond. I haven't had a chance to get any time under my belt (other than the MSF course).

I hope this thread isn't out of place. I know this site is all about celebrating motorcycles, and I've spent many hours reading and learning here.

Hi roncg

You are being manipulated.

Sites like Ride2die.com depend for their effect on the accumulation of images. The most lurid images the authors could find have been brought together from widely different places and times to give the impression of an overwhelming and inescapable carnage. They do this to suggest that a vicious and ugly death is the collective and inevitable fate of bikers everywhere. Their images suggest that the moment you get onto a bike you are no more than a pile of mangled bones, muscle, mucous and viscera. This is nonsense.

It is very dishonest.

There are all kinds of subliminal messages hidden behind these images, for example: all motorcyle accidents result in this kind of carnage; it will happen to you; only by riding a bike will anything like this happen to you; and you are powerless to do anything to prevent it. All These things are nonsense, too.

The site preys on our minds because we aren't prepared for images of this sort. Normally, we do not see these kind of images on the web or in the media, even though horrible deaths involving mutilation happen around us all the time - and I'm not just talking about motorcycle accidents. We never see the frequently gory effects of car accidents, domestic fires, scaldings, shootings, earthquakes, some very nasty forms of disease, volcanic explosions, plane crashes, wars, industrial accidents, animal maulings, etc, etc. We only get the sanitised picture. But put the after effects of all these things together and imagine what kind of a web site you could produce from them!

And that's the point. The images you have been looking at are 'after effects'. Think what you are observing. You are observing the dead bodies of others, not what they might have experienced in death - or, more to the point, what you might conceivably experience yourself in an accident of this kind.

We are all going to die one way or another and at some time. It might be later or sooner, tomorrow or years ahead. This is something a site like ride2die is designed to prevent you thinking about. Ask yourself the question: is ti better to die in a quick accident in which your body might be mutilated but in reality you are likely to know very little about it (In any serious accident like this adrenalin will kill the pain and you would certainly black out) or in a long-drawn out and painful degenerative disease?

The basic point is that what you see on ride2die is not real in terms of individual human experience. Images like this are designed to haunt your imagination. And that is what appears to be happening.

The trouble is, once you've got these kind of images in your head it is very hard to get them out again. The only thing to do is to sit down and consider things rationally and, importantly, put them in perspective. Ride2die.com accumulates emotive images like this for the purpose of swamping your imagination and emotions, and it does it precisely to prevent you thinking about the issues rationally.

Make your own mind up about whether you want to accept an increased level of risk by riding a motorcycle, but don't let yourself be manipulated by a clever con trick.

Motorcycling can be dangerous, and it is more dangerous than riding a car. But all risk is relative. You are much more likely to be killed or badly injured in a car accident in Tehran than you are in an American city. You are much more likely to be killed or badly injured in an American city than you are in a British one. You are much more likely in the UK (and probably the US too) to be killed in your own home as a result of a domestic accident than you are on a motorcycle. You are much more likely to be killed on a motorcycle if you are inexperienced, reckless, careless, riding unmaintained machinery or improperly kitted up, than if you are the opposite of all these things.

Don't get powerless about this. I'd recommend that you DO reflect on the possible realities of YOUR death on a motorcycle, in the context of your life as a whole. That's worth doing. I make a point of doing it myself from time to time. What isn't worth doing is subjecting yourself to unreal images, propaganda and psychological stress by manipulative sites like ride2die.

Sorry to go on about it, but stuff like this makes me very angry.