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Another story - what are your thoughts?
Posted: Sun Nov 23, 2008 7:10 pm
by Shorts
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,456525,00.html
Sword-Wielding Man Fatally Shot at Los Angeles Scientology Building
Sunday , November 23, 2008
AP
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LOS ANGELES —
A security guard shot and killed a man wielding two Samurai swords Sunday on the grounds of a Scientology building in Hollywood, police said.
The unidentified man approached three guards around noon in the parking lot of the Scientology Celebrity Centre, Los Angeles Deputy Police Chief Terry S. Hara said.
The man was "close enough to hurt them" when one of the guards shot him, Hara said. Detectives were questioning the guard to figure out the swordsman's motive and determine whether the shooting was justified.
Surveillance tape showed the man arriving at the center's parking lot in a red convertible, then approaching the guards with a sword in each hand, Hara said.
"The evidence itself, it's very, very clear," Hara said. "The security officers were defending their safety."
Calls to Scientology spokespeople were not immediately returned Sunday.
The Celebrity Centre includes a seven-story Norman-revival landmark that towers over the Hollywood freeway and used to be a residential hotel for movie stars.
The castle-like facility now serves as "a home for the artist, a place where he can come and learn, attend seminars, meet other artists and even perform at our many showcases and events," according to the center's Web site.
The Church of Scientology was established in 1945 by science fiction writer L. Ron Hubbard. It teaches that technology can expand the mind and help solve problems and claims 10 million members around the world, including celebrity devotees Tom Cruise and John Travolta.
2008 Dangerous Weapons Control Law
http://caag.state.ca.us/firearms/dwcl/12020.php
12020 thru 12040 Unlawful Carrying and Possession
ARTICLE 2. UNLAWFUL CARRYING AND POSSESSION OF WEAPONS
Posted: Mon Nov 24, 2008 6:58 am
by jstark47
I think it depends on what words were exchanged, and how the swords were being carried - things like that. Did the guard warn him before shooting? How fast did he approach the guard? Was he brandishing or swinging the swords, or just carrying them? Lots of variables, and I'd want to know much more before deciding if it was justified use of lethal force or not.
Posted: Tue Nov 25, 2008 2:11 pm
by Shorts
Yeah, a few things we don't know here.
No comments from anyone else? I'm disappointed, so often provocative posts are made yet there is no intelligent followup discussion, regardless the thread poster.
I'm trying to learn more from the other side but that's when everyone clams up. Suddenly, no one has real input or opinions.
Posted: Tue Nov 25, 2008 4:19 pm
by Johnj
I'm thinking I'd be concerned if someone approached waving a 7 foot sword in each hand.
Posted: Sat Nov 29, 2008 7:14 am
by the_sandman_454
jstark47 wrote:I think it depends on what words were exchanged, and how the swords were being carried - things like that. Did the guard warn him before shooting? How fast did he approach the guard? Was he brandishing or swinging the swords, or just carrying them? Lots of variables, and I'd want to know much more before deciding if it was justified use of lethal force or not.
If the guy was at all holding the swords in any way as to be perceived as threatening (this to me means the blades unsheathed), and was approaching the officers, IMO that sounds completely justified to me.
They should not have to issue a warning, it should be implied, approach anyone in a potentially hostile manner with a weapon(s) and you should probably expect to be shot when someone feels uncomfortable with your behavior.
A person with a bladed weapon within 25' or so is a lethal threat to you. They can close the distance very rapidly and if for some reason they sneak within that, I wouldn't consider the idea that there's time to warn them. If they don't drop it when you draw your weapon, they probably need to be shot as they are a deadly threat to your life.
Posted: Sat Nov 29, 2008 9:05 am
by flw
I have a collection of WWII bayonets from main of the main powers involved. If I were to transport them I would never consider carrying them outside there sheath and not outside there carring case or box.
It would just be asking of trouble to do so. Even though a bayonet is not a traditional knife that is covered in many state/local laws, I treat them as if they were a gun. Several were also designed to be used as a knife for hand to hand combat. Others were also designed to be used as multpurpose tools.
Being owner of many of these I would expect any officer to defend himself if said nothing and continued to approache him with any of my bayonets.
The biggest who knows that cannot be answered yet is what was mentioned earlier, did the swordsman or officers say anythign to each other before the shot(s) were fired.
If he said nothing and kept coming he got what he wanted. Sad as it is.
If he asked, where's the demonstation today or anything other than silence or a verbal direct threat, then he was murdered. Most likely we will never know.
I apply gun carrying laws in my state to my bayonets for my saftey as well as others.
Posted: Sat Nov 29, 2008 2:54 pm
by Shorts
As noted, firearms and bladed weapons, depending on the state, are classified as one in the same - "weapon". But in a lot of states, they are not. This is evident in the variety of permits issued throughout the states. Not all require a permit for any 'weapon' but some do (pocket knives, sprays, tasers). And there are often limits on length of blade for knife items.
CHL - Concealed Handgun License
CCP - Concealed Carry Permit
CCW - Concealed Carry Weapon
CWL - Concealed Weapons License
So my biggest question, did that guy have a permit and training to have those swords??
Posted: Sat Nov 29, 2008 4:25 pm
by poet
Shorts wrote:So my biggest question, did that guy have a permit and training to have those swords??
Where would he CONCEAL 2 swords ? ... Pant legs?
Posted: Sat Nov 29, 2008 4:32 pm
by Shorts
poet wrote:Shorts wrote:So my biggest question, did that guy have a permit and training to have those swords??
Where would he CONCEAL 2 swords ? ... Pant legs?
lol Apparently, so long as he's tall .
There's a video on youtube that shows just what firearms a kid can cram in his pants. I figure if they can do that, they can cram blades.
Guns in Pants:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zepAp5qQiDw
Of course, the video makes no mention of oracticality of walking around with all the gear in the his pants.
Posted: Sat Nov 29, 2008 7:46 pm
by Nalian
Without seeing the video I can't say if the shoot was justified or not.
Putting myself in the situation - if I had a gun and someone was coming at me with a sword menacingly and wouldn't back off after warnings (or came so fast there were no time for warnings) - I hope that I would shoot/be able to shoot in time. As far as I am concerned, that behavior makes the situation life-threatening.