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Harley Davidson today announced cuts of 1,000 more employees as 2nd quarter profits fall 91%. Ouch!!! No matter what your opinion is of their motorcycles or their customers, or of their business management, this is a major American company and employer.

They were talking about 10% unemployment possible on the news this a.m. Motorcycles are discretionary purchases for most folks, and discretionary income is in the tank.

Still, ouch.

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jstark47 wrote:Harley Davidson today announced cuts of 1,000 more employees as 2nd quarter profits fall 91%. Ouch!!! No matter what your opinion is of their motorcycles or their customers, or of their business management, this is a major American company and employer.

They were talking about 10% unemployment possible on the news this a.m. Motorcycles are discretionary purchases for most folks, and discretionary income is in the tank.

Still, ouch.

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/U/ ... TE=DEFAULT

I tried to explain this over on the rumors forum but I don't think I did so good. Harley Davidson is in survivial mode. It hired Kieth Wandell who took over May 1st. Everyone at HD is looking for him to part the "Red" Sea (I don't say this punningly) and build a corperation that can survive the next few years that this whatever crisis is going to last. What I heard from the right people at the wrong time is that they are going to cut several models. Some of these have already been announced like the Low Rider and the XL883C. New bikes are going to be few and far between this year.

When the Dealer's meeting takes place, possibly one of the most important speeches given by a Harley exec when Mr. Wandell explains how he is going to change the falling of Harley as a company around and reach out to new customers. I tried to tell people that I was getting those motorcycles that I wanted because deals were being made now and the future was bleak.

However, there is a lot of hope at HD at the uppermanagement levels because they believe in Mr Wandell and believe he will change Harley into a viable mass market motorcycle company.

However, it isn't just Harley that is suffering. All the major (and possibly the smaller specialty compnaies as well) are suffering and all are suffering reduced work forces. Honda shut down it's American manufactureing facilities to structure all their production in Japan. I cut down the Fury as a poor motorcycle but I have gotten an Email from someone that told me that the Fury is an act of desperation on Honda's part to capture more of the shrinking market.

I was given a toy today that is pretty amazing. A brand new Kawasaki 2005 ZZR1200 for $4995. This shows me that there is a lot of inventory in all the companies warehouses. Harley is the most noticeable right now but everyone is hurting.

As for Harley, it's like the Brit Bike collapse. It wasn't the Japanese invasion that killed the Btitish Bikes but poor management decisions and unrealistic demands by labor caused the real decay. Now it is reliance on a once fat and happy older biker group that is now counting its pennies and watching their homes become worth less and less instead of reaching out earlier to various groups.

Like I said, it will be interesting in a few days.

That's 91% on profits so hey lets trash 1000 employees. Greed is going to be our downfall. Actually it already is.

Ryethil wrote:I tried to explain this over on the rumors forum but I don't think I did so good.

Oh, I don't think anyone disbelieved you. This news item just confirms what we were suspecting about HD.

One can say not updating their business model meant they had this coming. But... personally, I lived in PA for many years before NJ. Their York PA plant is a major regional employer. Many peoples' lives are caught up in this. I take no satisfaction in Harley's troubles.

Kawasaki's operations in Lincoln, Nebraska is in the same mode as HD. The company, that I work for, supplies parts for their ATV and Jet Ski divisions. In a meeting with them two week ago, they told us that 65% of their workforce (500 employees) are on layoff and they have begun offering their Management early buyout options. They don't anticipate things changing much through 2010. From past experience with them, they do an excellent job of projecting market trends. People won't be spending as much on their toys in the near future.

jstark47 wrote:

Ryethil wrote:I tried to explain this over on the rumors forum but I don't think I did so good.

Oh, I don't think anyone disbelieved you. This news item just confirms what we were suspecting about HD.

One can say not updating their business model meant they had this coming. But... personally, I lived in PA for many years before NJ. Their York PA plant is a major regional employer. Many peoples' lives are caught up in this. I take no satisfaction in Harley's troubles.

As someone who lives about 30 miles from York, I was just saying the same thing on a BMW board. York was hit hard when Caterpillar closed its factory there, and this will make it worse.

jstark47 wrote:

Ryethil wrote:I tried to explain this over on the rumors forum but I don't think I did so good.

Oh, I don't think anyone disbelieved you. This news item just confirms what we were suspecting about HD.

One can say not updating their business model meant they had this coming. But... personally, I lived in PA for many years before NJ. Their York PA plant is a major regional employer. Many peoples' lives are caught up in this. I take no satisfaction in Harley's troubles.

Again using the Brit Bike anology, I think that a major part of their present problem is that they couldn't design anything that didn't look like a Harley.They took the Porsche engine and put it into a "super" Harley chassis instead of possibly making a real sport bike or a tourer or anything. But it ended up a Harley. How many bikes can you make out of the same basic engine without them all running together.

And they didn't spend the money when they had it to improve their manufacturing plants. So the got hit from both ends. And with stunts like the XR1200 only being available in Europe, a whole mess of dreams were wasted. It's a shame.

And the sad thing is when I moved from a Rice bike to a Sportster and from a Sportster to a Big Twin it was like coming of age. Where did they lose all of that?

Dunno!

RockBottom wrote:

jstark47 wrote:

Ryethil wrote:I tried to explain this over on the rumors forum but I don't think I did so good.

Oh, I don't think anyone disbelieved you. This news item just confirms what we were suspecting about HD.

One can say not updating their business model meant they had this coming. But... personally, I lived in PA for many years before NJ. Their York PA plant is a major regional employer. Many peoples' lives are caught up in this. I take no satisfaction in Harley's troubles.

As someone who lives about 30 miles from York, I was just saying the same thing on a BMW board. York was hit hard when Caterpillar closed its factory there, and this will make it worse.

I have a couple of friends that have good mechanical skills, loved Harleys and belived in Wiilie G. They moved up to York years ago and the money was good and it was a friendly company to work for.

Then we got a letter with our Christmas Cards from them and things weren't going well. But things would turnaround, management said and there weren't going to be layoffs. Yea, there were shorter hours and free days but HD would survive.

Now we sort have cleared our house out and made room for them and their families. I don't suspect it will be too much longer. At least bike shops need mechanics and they're good at their jobs though it won't pay what their manufacturing jobs did.

Kind of S*cks...

Scott58 wrote:That's 91% on profits so hey lets trash 1000 employees. Greed is going to be our downfall. Actually it already is.

Would you rather they keep the employees, build more bikes than they need, and then turn into the auto industry? As much as it sucks, these cuts are neccesary. This is just the start.

Production for 2010 models is going to be cut by as much as 61K units. Shipments of the 10 models will be on a reduced basis for August, with no shipments occuring in Sep. From what I understand. The goal is to ship less motorcycles than what is forecast by the dealers for total sales, to get the supply and demand back in shape.

On top of that there is discussion on the number of dealers in some markets.

Graunke wrote:

Scott58 wrote:That's 91% on profits so hey lets trash 1000 employees. Greed is going to be our downfall. Actually it already is.

Would you rather they keep the employees, build more bikes than they need, and then turn into the auto industry? As much as it sucks, these cuts are neccesary. This is just the start.

No, but all with that the Davidsons stood for, why is such an American company so anti-employee? Why are you are quoting is the same worn line about it's defensible to rape the working guy while the elite is given Billions in "benefits"? Why is Labor the one to take it on the chin for "STOOPID" mistakes management made? Yes, it sound's as sh*ty a deal as GM. I just wonder if America realises how close they are. And, yes, Obama is right, we have to survive so that all of us can make a fresh start. Like you said, it just sucks.

Graunke wrote:Production for 2010 models is going to be cut by as much as 61K units. Shipments of the 10 models will be on a reduced basis for August, with no shipments occuring in Sep. From what I understand. The goal is to ship less motorcycles than what is forecast by the dealers for total sales, to get the supply and demand back in shape.

On top of that there is discussion on the number of dealers in some markets.

When the National Dealers Meeting convines, there is supposedly a speech that will be given by Kieth Wandell which will dictate everything that happen to the company. No one but a very few know what will Harley Davidson will actually commit too. There are so many different takes that I have heard from factory reps and dealers that a regional person just said wait and see.

I believe you for I've heard a lot of the same things. However, I've heard this story change radically several times since Mr. Wandell took control May 1st. For now there is a back log so great that shipping new product could just make the glut so bad that the inventory problem could just get worse.

I, for one, rebuild and restore motorcycles and do other things with customers who are willing to pay the price for things that the company should have done. Right now a big problem is that there is a lot of expensive inventory like CVOs which are just sitting on the floors of dealers and customers who want to buy that very bikes and can't because Harley isn't taking special orders on 2009 machines and no one knows what the 2010 models will be like except for a few like there will be new colors on the CVO Fat Bob. So I guess that means the CVO Fat Bob is coming back.

I don't mean to be so angry especially to you for I don't think you had anything to do with the problem. You're just trying to let the message out. It's just our house is only so big to handle the number of people that may come to visit now that their unemployed.

Like I said this earlier in the thread, Harley isn't alone. I don't know a company that is not going to cut jobs by more than 40-50%. I've heard that American Honda is going to cut all US production in America so that it can centralize they're manufacturing in Japan.

However, I knew this was coming so I bought or traded for all the machines that I wanted so that when this crash happens I will have the bikes I wanted. I wasn't overly bright in doing this but just really lucky. I'm just saddened that it came to this. If I ever get back on my feet, business will be better than worse for me but I don't want it so. Of course I may have a few more people to help me. So I guess everything balances in the end.

Thanks everyone for listening to my poor attempt at a rant.