Lean Angle

Message

RhadamYgg · #1 Unread post by **RhadamYgg** » Mon Sep 07, 2009 4:03 pm

OK. So, I think I still have a problem leaning my bike. Obviously, it isn't a problem with the bike.

The quick version is I'd like to know the range of angles a bike can lean to find a lean indicator with an appropriate range.

Fear is definitely a factor and I'd like to resolve this with knowledge.

There are these indicator that can be purchased and I'm sure a way could be found to mount it on a bike - which shows your tilt.

I was looking at these. Something that I could glance at while leaning in a turn and see just how far I've leaned.

But having a lean indicator is only half the information necessary to make this useful.

What I was planning on doing was (since my bike has crash protectors on it and maybe some rags on those so I don't scratch them or a mat or something to put it down on) after installing whatever tilt indicator, easing the bike down to the ground and marking the indicator(s) with where my max lean is.

Of course, picking my bike up is a huge PITA.

Then when riding I could lean in to a turn and if I felt I needed to go deeper, instead of easing off the throttle lean deeper.

I've read posts... I know. Lean as far as you can, then lean further. It just isn't working that well for me. I have done it a few times. Knowing how much lean I've got is important to me.

So, anyway, these tilt indicators have ranges of lean angle they will record and back to the beginning - I need to know the range of angles that a bike leans to get something that will read an appropriate range.

Any thoughts? I'd recognize I'm proceeding with this differently than most people.

RhadamYgg

JC Viper · #2 Unread post by **JC Viper** » Mon Sep 07, 2009 4:35 pm

Proficient Motorcycling has something in there about this. To get more ground clearance for leaning you accelerate a bit which raises the bike. Most bikes today can lean pretty far thanks to better tires. Also I think that's what the feelers on the pegs are for. I have to find my copy of the book somewhere.

If I can lean a Vulcan 500 to the point of pushing the foot peg up chances are your bike can do the same or go further. Even a GoldWing can go pretty low.

#3 Unread post by **Wrider** » Mon Sep 07, 2009 4:58 pm

Dude you worry too much about this stuff. You can lean as far as you want on that bike without hitting your pegs in all probability. You can lean until you hit the pegs, then a little more. Don't worry about it because chances are just daily riding you'll never hit them.

mbrudolph · #4 Unread post by **mbrudolph** » Mon Sep 07, 2009 5:08 pm

Practice, practice, practice!

From your riding experience it could be a problem with the bike in that you obviously have some experience and have not yet adjusted to this particular bike.

I don’t think it’s a very good idea to try to be glancing at instrumentation while in a turn. You should always be looking as forward as possible into the turn. You have much more important things to be doing to control the bike in a turn. Chances are you won’t have enough time to read an instrument and respond to make what you think are the necessary changes to your angle. You will be relying on the gauge to set the proper angle. This means that you’ll be reading the gauge through the turn. Not a smart thing to do.

Experiencing a fear factor in turns is a definite indication that you are not yet comfortable with riding the bike. That said, please don’t attempt to carry a passenger until you have the bike totally under control.

The best and only instrumentation you need is your body. You mention this yourself when you used the word “feel”. You must have experienced this “feel” with the other bike you have owned, or have you always had problems in turns?

You can’t rely on a gauge such as you suggest. Wind, weather, wet road, gravel, sand, pavement, potholes, luggage, traffic conditions, daylight, night time, intersections, and speed are just some of the many factors that will determine your angle. A gauge can’t address these variables. The other problem with a gauge is that it may indicate more lean is required and if you attempt it and are not comfortable (it doesn’t feel right) you will likely go down. It has to feel right.

It’s becoming one with the bike. Try to get this resolved before you hit the highways or open road. Start out slow, eventually you and the bike will respond as one.

Best of luck and stay safe.

RhadamYgg · #5 Unread post by **RhadamYgg** » Mon Sep 07, 2009 5:28 pm

Funny, I gave away my copies of Proficient Motorcycling. It is funny, but I really know I've got a sense that I have a problem leaning from watching the races.

On TV you can see these guys are leaning hard... In person, seeing them leaning those bikes all the way down - I understand that I have a problem with leaning.

RhadamYgg

BuzZz · #6 Unread post by **BuzZz** » Mon Sep 07, 2009 5:45 pm

I'm with Wrider..... you worry to much about some of this stuff sometimes.

Numbers are groovy and all, but riding is best enjoyed from the gut, IMHO.

About those lean angle gauges..... aside from all the variables mentioned above, basic centrifugal force in a hard corner will negate any accuracy in the instrument. Not to mention, if your leaning hard enough to make yourself nervous, do you really want to look down at that thing in the middle of a corner?

Find some nice, safe corners you can repeat (make a circuit out of them, new subdivisions under construction are great if you can find one) and ride them over and over, pushing your comfort level more and more. When you fall, that would be the point to remember as 'too far'.

The only sure way to know where the edge is, is to go past it every now and then.

RhadamYgg · #7 Unread post by **RhadamYgg** » Mon Sep 07, 2009 6:08 pm

Wrider wrote:Dude you worry too much about this stuff. You can lean as far as you want on that bike without hitting your pegs in all probability. You can lean until you hit the pegs, then a little more. Don't worry about it because chances are just daily riding you'll never hit them.

My suspicion is that in fact the bike can lean far more than I'll ever need to. Especially if it can lean as far as those race bikes.

RhadamYgg

RhadamYgg · #8 Unread post by **RhadamYgg** » Mon Sep 07, 2009 6:23 pm

mbrudolph wrote:Practice, practice, practice!

From your riding experience it could be a problem with the bike in that you obviously have some experience and have not yet adjusted to this particular bike.

I don’t think it’s a very good idea to try to be glancing at instrumentation while in a turn. You should always be looking as forward as possible into the turn. You have much more important things to be doing to control the bike in a turn. Chances are you won’t have enough time to read an instrument and respond to make what you think are the necessary changes to your angle. You will be relying on the gauge to set the proper angle. This means that you’ll be reading the gauge through the turn. Not a smart thing to do.

Experiencing a fear factor in turns is a definite indication that you are not yet comfortable with riding the bike. That said, please don’t attempt to carry a passenger until you have the bike totally under control.

The best and only instrumentation you need is your body. You mention this yourself when you used the word “feel”. You must have experienced this “feel” with the other bike you have owned, or have you always had problems in turns?

You can’t rely on a gauge such as you suggest. Wind, weather, wet road, gravel, sand, pavement, potholes, luggage, traffic conditions, daylight, night time, intersections, and speed are just some of the many factors that will determine your angle. A gauge can’t address these variables. The other problem with a gauge is that it may indicate more lean is required and if you attempt it and are not comfortable (it doesn’t feel right) you will likely go down. It has to feel right.

It’s becoming one with the bike. Try to get this resolved before you hit the highways or open road. Start out slow, eventually you and the bike will respond as one.

Best of luck and stay safe.

Time for practice isn't something that I really have. I get to commute on the bike when I get the chance - and this year I had a chance to put some miles on the bike going out to vacation.

Granted, how far you can lean depends on more than sheer contact distance to parts of the bike to the ground. Certainly I might physically have more lean left, but if there is sand on the road my contact patch might be too small to have enough friction to avoid lowsiding.

But, on decent road conditions, knowing precisely how much the bike can lean would conquer the fear that if I lean too far I'll bury the peg in the pavement.

Oh, I wouldn't worry about a passenger! I don't have anyone that would ride with me.

I have had a concern with putting a tilt indicator on the bike - that if I look down, I'd go down (which they said repeatedly in the MSF course), but in the course of riding - even in turns I've had to check for cars and look other directions than where I'm going - and for quick glances, this is ok. As you say, though, riding through an entire turn staring at a gauge isn't going to work.

The point in having such a gauge would be to understand that yes, I've got plenty of more lean to go, or no I don't. Not to look at the gauge through the turn and determine that I should be leaned 25 degrees and watch the gauge through the turn.

I've even had thoughts that sans tilt indicator - I could just lay the bike down (where it won't get damaged) and sit on the bike while it is on the ground. Then I could see that this is completely and fully leaned out (overleaned actually - ok, so that isn't a word). But even if I could envision in my mind that say 95% of where the bike is when it is actually in contact with the ground is max lean - I'd know when I'm riding through a turn that I've got plenty of lean to go - or I don't.

I have - actually two specific problem areas with turns and riding.

1) severely declining radius off-ramps/on-ramps to highways
2) Right turns at very slow speeds. Basically, at the end of my commute I make a right turn from a slow road to my neighborhood - where there is in fact poor road conditions (sand collects there) and I slow wayyy down before entering the turn.

I'll have to see if I can figure a new way to take video on the new bike. This way I could put the videos on Youtube to break down what my specific problems are.

Thanks for the feedback, man. Hopefully, I'll get my head around these issues.

RhadamYgg

RhadamYgg · #9 Unread post by **RhadamYgg** » Mon Sep 07, 2009 6:26 pm

Wrider wrote:Dude you worry too much about this stuff. You can lean as far as you want on that bike without hitting your pegs in all probability. You can lean until you hit the pegs, then a little more. Don't worry about it because chances are just daily riding you'll never hit them.

You know, you may be right. I do pretty well. I'll have to see if I can take video and spin my tires that shows my chicken strips. Then we can say that I am or am not leaning enough. Not sure if I can take video of high enough quality to show the chicken strips, though.

I can say this - the second line on my tires is still not gone. The first line is mostly gone.

RhadamYgg

RhadamYgg · Mon Sep 07, 2009 6:27 pm

There was this thing - I thought I could mount in front of my windscreen and look at briefly while going through some turns.
Thing

At least it is cheap enough that if I don't do anything with it - it wouldn't be a big issue.

RhadamYgg