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The future of motorcycles are going to be the scooters, every other year the emission standards are getting stricter, whats Harley Davidson bikes going to look and sound like with a closed loop system with cataylic converters with a O2 sensor?
My Yamaha TMAX Scooter meets and exceeds 2012 Tier 2 emissions, I get 51 mpg and I can go just as fast and faster than any full size cruiser bike!
and,,, I am saving mother earth from global warming, look at the volcanos in Iceland, the only reason they are erupting is because of global warming melting the ice that covers them.

Marvin wrote:whats Harley Davidson bikes going to look and sound like with a closed loop system with cataylic converters with a O2 sensor?

Uh... not too bad, actually. HD has had the closed loop EFI with O2 sensors on their bikes since around '05 and even had catalytic converters for a couple years, too. My '07 - with stock mufflers, btw - doesn't have the cats (nor does any of the newer models) because they reworked the EFI and ignition systems to pass current EPA regs without them.

Gummiente wrote:

Marvin wrote:whats Harley Davidson bikes going to look and sound like with a closed loop system with cataylic converters with a O2 sensor?

Uh... not too bad, actually. HD has had the closed loop EFI with O2 sensors on their bikes since around '05 and even had catalytic converters for a couple years, too. My '07 - with stock mufflers, btw - doesn't have the cats (nor does any of the newer models) because they reworked the EFI and ignition systems to pass current EPA regs without them.

My mistake! I didn't know that, I never seen any HD with a cat and O2, but i'm not around HD's that much, so I wouldn't know, I never seen any HD with a stock exhaust, so thats great that HD is getting into the act, now we need to write our government officials to pass laws making it illegal for anybody to change or tamper with the stock exhaust systems.

Marvin wrote:now we need to write our government officials to pass laws making it illegal for anybody to change or tamper with the stock exhaust systems.

You didn't mention where you live, but here in Canada and in the US it is illegal to modify/change your exhaust. The problem is that it's a hard one to enforce as the methods used to measure "loudness" vary quite a bit depending on the region. What we need is legislation that clearly outlines the procedures and parameters of measuring exhaust noise levels and the implementaion of standardised equipment used to measure them.

In the mean time, the loud pipes crowd "pee" off more people every day. My own personal belief is that Draconian measures will be taken by local authourities before higher levels of government can come up with the required legislation.

Global warming, that could turn into an interesting conversation.............scooters are def taking over more but I'll still be on my RC51 (with that lovely note from the SATO's ) until someone drags me off of it. Good luck though!

My CBR125R exceeds the stringent Euro3 emissions standards and is basically a standard scooter. (coulding afford the AT upgrade )

All that said, the TMAX is a cool bike, but not typical of most scooters in terms of performance. My wife checked the TMAX out last year during her search for something smaller and lighter than a Triumph Trophy (which eventually resulted in her buying the F650GS twin).

Hmmm, I get 56 mpg so far with my FZ6 - it is quiet and while it doesn't have the power of god in it like my B-King, it is damned good. I don't think I'd take any scooter over the FZ6 - or for that matter, my old Ninja 250, which got 60 mpg, easily. I think the new Ninja 250, is a much better bike in all ways, doesn't get quite as good mpg, but even so, Ninja 250 beats scooter, handily.

To each his own though, scooters aren't bad and some motorcycles such as the BMW S1000R and the Honda VFR 1200 - are more scooter like in the fact that they either have automatic/semi automatic modes or can take care of the clutch themselves.

But personally, the typically larger wheels and tires - major suspension components - give me a lot more comfort on the road. This is something I like a lot on the FZ6 over the Ninja 250. I felt those tires were too small and that impacted riding handling (tank slapper) on ripped up getting ready to be repaved roads. The B-Kings tires were the best size. I wouldn't mind larger tires on smaller bikes.

EFI is a wonderful thing. Don't need to worry about emissions nearly as much because it delivers a proper amount of fuel no matter the altitude, load, RPM range, temperature, humidity, etc etc etc.
And +1 on HD's use of a closed loop system. It's actually one of the most advanced systems used in a street motorcycle.

RhadamYgg wrote:Hmmm, I get 56 mpg so far with my FZ6 - it is quiet and while it doesn't have the power of god in it like my B-King, it is damned good. I don't think I'd take any scooter over the FZ6 - or for that matter, my old Ninja 250, which got 60 mpg, easily. I think the new Ninja 250, is a much better bike in all ways, doesn't get quite as good mpg, but even so, Ninja 250 beats scooter, handily.

To each his own though, scooters aren't bad and some motorcycles such as the BMW S1000R and the Honda VFR 1200 - are more scooter like in the fact that they either have automatic/semi automatic modes or can take care of the clutch themselves.

But personally, the typically larger wheels and tires - major suspension components - give me a lot more comfort on the road. This is something I like a lot on the FZ6 over the Ninja 250. I felt those tires were too small and that impacted riding handling (tank slapper) on ripped up getting ready to be repaved roads. The B-Kings tires were the best size. I wouldn't mind larger tires on smaller bikes.

I have owned a FZ6 since 2005 and I never got any better than 45 mpg