New to motorcycles...Interesting opportunity

[MSmith4542]

Hi all,

A little about myself. I've always been interested in motorcycles but never pulled the trigger on buying one. Obviously as a total cycle newbie, I've told myself that I'd buy something cheap and simple to get my bearings before I spring for a new bike. I have a good knowledge of auto mechanics and small engine repair. However I have never worked with motorcycles and after today I have a lot of questions.

Long story short, I have dibs on a lot of 60's-80's motorcycles that are being offered in an estate sale type situation. Guy was an absolute hoarder of complete bikes, frames, and parts. All running bikes were snatched up by family members, but there is at least 20 what I call "complete" bikes (some visibly missing small parts, some turn over, some are seized, etc) and another 40 or so frames/halfway bikes.

After touring the lot (literally 1400 square feet of a home packed to the brim with all things motorcycle), and getting some very limited information from the broker, I found 4 that caught my eye. These bikes were confirmed to have been in running condition in the past few years. Keep in mind here that the seller is both clueless on values and swamped with things to sell. Meaning I am in a position to make ridiculously low offers that will probably be accepted.

http://s21.postimg.org/5pv87jyo7/suzuki.jpg
I believe this is a 1971 Suzuki T500. There is an existing offer of $300 on this bike, so I could get it for ~$250

http://s12.postimg.org/aotwi1wil/honda.jpg
Honda FR 500 ascot. Could probably get this for under $200

http://s18.postimg.org/684urr6q1/triumph.jpg
It is a Triumph and that is all we could find on the motor or frame. Because of the name, he threw out the figure of $800. This one really appeals to me visually but I know nothing about the bike itself or parts so I'm a bit more apprehensive about it

http://s14.postimg.org/ipdzppv0x/yamaha.jpg
Yamaha. Obviously missing the handlebars but other than that mechanically it appears complete. Broker and myself know nothing, so could get this bike for my own price here

I'm reaching out to the world here for some information from experienced gearheads.
A) Can you identify the Triumph or the Yamaha? Or know how to?
B) Which of these would be the best "beginner" type bike, factoring in that they will need parts and repairs to them (cosmetics are not an issue)
C) Am I wasting my time here? Should I just go out and buy a running bike to start with? I love projects to work on but don't want to get in over my head

Thanks to anyone who replies, and nice to meet you all.

Matt

[GS_in_CO]

The Suzuki looks like a two-stroke. Not good to learn on and what you learn mechanically will not transfer well to other machines.

My choice would be the Ascot. Looks near complete and it's a good size to begin with. Honda parts and such probably easier to get than old Triumph parts.

You ought to look into how to deal with titles and registration. Without title things might get a bit complex.

[MSmith4542]

Thanks for the reply Ron.

After some more research I am leaning towards the Ascot as well. He will take $150 for it so even if I can't get it running I will have a cool looking display for my garage. I will post an update when I get the bike. Thanks again!

Matt

[Johnj]

The first one is an old two-stroke, the Honda would make a perfect first bike, the Triumph is a 67-70 650 with a 71-73 front fork and wheel, and last a late 70's early 80's 650 Yamaha parts bike.

Where is this sale at?

[GS_in_CO]

I admired the Ascot bikes when they were new. 500cc is an excellent size for a beginner.
I expect that your issues with it will be primarily old gasoline and dead battery related.
I wouldn't even open the petcock to the carbs before cleaning out the tank of old gas and rust flakes and stuff.
Then plan on removing and cleaning the carb(s?).
Put some oil down the plug holes.
Then with a new battery, see what happens when you try to start it.
There's a fair chance it'll run from there.

Don't forget that you probably need new tires (age not tread depth) and brake fluid would likely need changed.

[MSmith4542]

The first one is an old two-stroke, the Honda would make a perfect first bike, the Triumph is a 67-70 650 with a 71-73 front fork and wheel, and last a late 70's early 80's 650 Yamaha parts bike.

Where is this sale at?

The sale is in the Detroit area. At this point it is a "private" showing situation, but if fate had it that you were near Detroit and wanted to take a look I'm sure I could arrange it. There are a lot of cool rare bikes in the house. A couple of slick looking Ossa's, a few more oddball enduro type bikes, Hondas, Kawasakis, Yamahas, a vintage BMW, and a whole gallery of frames and parts.

Again, thanks for the advice people. Much appreciated. I'm excited to get my hands on the Honda and see what I'm dealing with. My first thought was also to start at the fuel source, get it clean, rebuild the carb and work my way around from there. Cool thing is, he gave me free reign on scouring the parts scattered about if I get it and find something I need. Lots of digging to do for sure, but it feels like an episode of American Pickers in that place.

Matt

[GS_in_CO]

Parts scattered about isn't the ideal situation. Sounds like there are a lot of single type bikes in there so scattered parts would be for all sorts of bikes and likely not easily figured out. Would have been better if the collector had been one who specialized in one model of the same bike just collecting one for every year and one in each paint color......

It would also be problematic if he'd been a collector of non-running bikes just because they were cheap. Meaning that there would be even more adventure in figuring out how to get the bike going again.

Something to watch for is that in the 70's the petcocks started being vacuum operated meaning that engine vacuum would pull on a diaphragm in the petcock which would open the flow path to the carb. This was an automatic shutoff mechanism for when you were parked. The vacuum hose can leak, the diaphragm can leak, or the valve could be stuck open with rust flakes. Filling the carb the first time requires a PRIME position on the petcock. Anyway, some things aren't as simple as they ought to be.....

Still, the price is right and if you like to tinker this could be a lot of fun.

[MSmith4542]

Something to watch for is that in the 70's the petcocks started being vacuum operated meaning that engine vacuum would pull on a diaphragm in the petcock which would open the flow path to the carb. This was an automatic shutoff mechanism for when you were parked. The vacuum hose can leak, the diaphragm can leak, or the valve could be stuck open with rust flakes. Filling the carb the first time requires a PRIME position on the petcock. Anyway, some things aren't as simple as they ought to be.....

Ok now you got me nervous...

Kidding, I figure there is going to be some things on this journey that will drive me crazy but that is the fun of it. Worst case scenario is I spent $150 and got a hands on experience gaining knowledge I can use when I buy a running bike. Maybe I'll get lucky and get it get it started sooner than later. Once I get it home I'll take a harder look at it and see what I've actually got.

Any tips on cleaning the tank out? I was going to drain the gas, flush with water, and do a vinegar type treatment.

[GS_in_CO]

Drain the gas - yes.
Flush with water - no. That would just add to the rust.

I'd start with putting about 3 cups of fresh gas in the tank, capping it then shaking real well. (of course it's removed from the bike) After that drain it into a large clear glass jar so you can see what comes out.

If you get lots of rust then you have to do more work. I've not done it - just read about it. Vinegar might be an acceptable treatment. Another might be to put a handful of small nuts and bolts in the tank with the vinegar then shake all that to break out the rust.

There is a tank re-lining treatment I've heard of called KREEM. I'm sure it has instructions for proper preparation.

Or you put an inline fuel filter in the gas line and keep the tank full so it doesn't rust more... and just see how that goes.

The info on the vacuum petcock is just an indication that bikes are DIFFERENT. If you've worked on cars and lawnmowers you know many things but bikes have differences - such as they are aluminum and therefore cannot take large torque on fasteners and so forth.

You'll need a manual for the bike to figure out checking valve clearance and so on.

For $200 it's a good project and you might end up with a pretty cool bike to ride.

[MSmith4542]

The info on the vacuum petcock is just an indication that bikes are DIFFERENT. If you've worked on cars and lawnmowers you know many things but bikes have differences - such as they are aluminum and therefore cannot take large torque on fasteners and so forth.

Thanks. Didn't mean for my comment to sound like a smart remark

Truly appreciate the responses though. I'll be back with plentttty more questions I'm sure! I've already ordered a manual, and have been researching the parts market just to see what is out there. Lucky for me I won't have a problem finding seemingly any parts for this bike. The struggle will be not spending more than the worth of the restored product if need be, but I suppose if it gets that far it will be in the "labor of love" realm.