Total Motorcycle Community Forums

one fourth of the people say that 500cc and below is the way to go for the learning curve.

one fourth say that 650cc is the bare minimum and that you should hop on something like a 700cc to start off with (if i see you on the street, i dont know you, and your probably not in this forum anyway)

one fourth say that 500cc to 650cc is good, but nothing above, and below is too slow, you will grow out of it too soon.

the last fourth is wondering what a cc actualy is and what relevance it has to how cool the bike looks. these people want a gixxer 1000.

my question is, if 650s are the 'grey' area learning bikes, what makes the sv650 and sv650s so well endorsed by the general internet rider population in comparison to other 650cc bikes?

even most of the first fourth dont mind saying something about them. what drives this?

It depends on the bike. A 650 cruiser is a complete different animal than a 600 sportbike. In a cruiser, a 650 to 800 makes a good choice for a first bike. In a sport bike a 600 is way too much. The SV650 is sometimes an ok choice but it is a V twin and they do not have near the horsepower as the other 600 sport bikes. Hope that helps a little bit.

All CCs are not created equal. It's not a good measure of what an engine will do. For example an old Triumph or Yamaha 650 with an air cooled vertical twin will max out just under 50 hp. The liquid cooled V-twin on the SV650 puts out about 40% more horsepower, coming in at around 70 hp. A Kawasaki 636 with a liquid cooled inline four makes over 120 hp. Nearly 2 1/2 times the power of the Triumph. As you can see, there's a very broad range of power output all from engines in the same displacement category. The ONLY thing they have in common is that they displace about the same number of cubic centimeters.

Each bike should be evaluated more on what it is capable of doing, rather than just relying on displacement. Generally, twins offer lower overall horsepower than four cylinders, but it is better balanced (along with torque) throughout the powerband. That's more what you're looking for in a beginning motorcycle. They put the power where you can use it, not all at the top of the RPM range like the race ready bikes.

This is not to say that all four cylinder power plants are twitchy race engines (although most of the new ones sold are found in powerful sportbikes). My Nighthawk 750 has a 16 valve inline-4 that puts out a not-so-blistering 65 hp on the dyno. Honda de-tuned this engine to put out less overall hp, but what there is gets delivered in the lower rpm ranges you're more likely to use on the street. They did this by installing smaller carbs, milder cams and reducing the rpm redline. When you look at the dyno chart, it's hard to imagine that the power and torque curves belong to an inline 4. They look very twinnish. All in all, it won't take a sportbike on the dragstrip, but it's a very good ride on the street.

When it comes right down to it. The best way to evaluate a prospective bike is to get data. Motorcycle mags are great for this. In addition to their ride reviews, most will publish dyno data that will give you a good idea of the kind of performance you can expect.

What he said.

The SV650 and the Ninja 650 are larger displacement sportbikes, but they are different animals than 600 supersports. An average supersport 600 probably puts out 105hp at the back wheel, while the SV and Ninja 650 put out 72. Some say 72 is too much, and in some cases they are right.

Bikes like the gs500,ninja500/250 are just going to be easier to ride than the SV, due to size,weight,and balancing.

This is my opinion, and that of a fairly new biker, so take it for what its worth. When I was learning to ride on my SV650S, I probably had to practice harder and more diligently at low speed manuevers than people on smaller more balanced bikes. This is good and bad. Its bad because I dropped my bike(very minor stuff) a few times. The good thing is I know what to expect from bigger sportbikes, which might or might not come in handy later on. I would very much like to see riding reports from Ninja 650 owners, to see how that bike stacks up to the SV, balance wise.

On the road, the SV is just fine. I only had problems with the SV doing low speed slalom course type things and tight u-turns. As time has gone on, I have improved at all of these things, but it probably would have been easier on a small bike.

If someone takes it slow and easy, sure they can learn on an SV, but there are easier bikes to learn on. The longevity of the SV over the smaller bikes is why they are so popular for novices.

I probably answered your question and alot more that you didnt ask

Engine configuration has alot to do with a bike's power output.

Other variables when recommending a beginner bike:
(But not as important to most people)
- Weight - how heavy and where does it carry the weight (Top heavy is not as good to learn on)
- Suspension - an older bike w/ a saggy suspension isn't really confidence inspiring, but this can be modified rather easily.
- Brakes - A bike with crappy brakes is a bad choice, but a bike with Razor sharp brakes is equally bad.
- Seating position - How comfy is it, and will a newb be able to ride it properly (will the newb be able to carry his/her weight well on the bike)
- Steering angle (rake) - Ki9cked out forks (like on a chopper) are bad bikes to learn on as they are difficult to handle. Similarly, bikes with a steep rake (Like a ZX-10R) are bad because they tend to flop over in corners and depending on the bike can develop a dangerous wobble in the handlebars at speed.
- Economy - What's the initial price of the bike, how much is Insurance, and what will it cost to repair if it goes down.

The nature of the SV's engine means that it makes useable torque down in the power band, where newbies usually hang out when they are learning. The seating position is relatively neutral, and all of the factors mentioned are generally favorable to Newbs. However, the real problem some have with this bike (Including me) is that when you have so much torque down low, a snap of the throttle will cause a wheelie and could cause an accident. I've seen this happen to an acquaintance of mine who bought the SV650S. First time on the bike, wheelies it and BAM has to get a new front fairing, turn signals and handle bar straightened out again.

A Ducati Monster 620ie, however, has everything the SV has, but makes slightly less power, so i think it's a better bike to start off with. But then you have the Economy issue. Ducatis are expensive to service. It'a all a tradeoff.

many people just want to be agreeable - and as everything is a tradeoff, it's better to see a newb get an SV instead of a GSX-R as a first bike. However, the SV isn't as good as (for ex.) a GS500, which does everything well for a newb.

"However, the real problem some have with this bike (Including me) is that when you have so much torque down low, a snap of the throttle will cause a wheelie and could cause an accident. I've seen this happen to an acquaintance of mine who bought the SV650S. First time on the bike, wheelies it and BAM has to get a new front fairing, turn signals and handle bar straightened out again."

Well, I dont want to make light of what happened to your friend, but knowing what I know of the SV, it makes me chuckle. People without the good sense to know that when you completely open the throttle from a standstill you are going to get a wheelie, dont need to be on a bike.

I have opened the throttle very aggressively more a few times, and only once or twice did the front get real light. Your friend honestly didnt belong on that bike, but I dont think people like that should be the measuring stick. They are probably the exception.

Im sure some people could get into a 50hp car and wreck it right away. I remember watching a show in which some lady flunked her driving test dozens of times, it was crazy. I saw a video of a guy on a bike for the first time, a supersport. The guy had the throttle open 3/4 of the way before he even let out the clutch. Of course he wheelied and wrecked it!

Should people like that be the measure of a good learning bike? Should all advice be tailored to the lowest common denominator? Maybe so.

swatter555 wrote: Should people like that be the measure of a good learning bike? Should all advice be tailored to the lowest common denominator? Maybe so.

It was an Acquaintance, not a true friend, and yeah he was a real squid.

Anyway- I think that the advice given to a newb should be conservative (unless of course you really know the person) Because we are an online forum, it would be stupid of me NOT to be conservative with advice that I give. We all know that ultimately people make their own choices. unfortunately those choices are influenced by many outside factors. I think too many of those factors say "It's OK to go out and get a 600 sportbike to start out on" I try to remain conservative to counter those people.

ooooooooooooooh! *prints page*

ive been looking for this type of information forever. you would be surprised how many people dont tell you these things. a friend of mine is one of the gixxer 1000 quarters. for those of you that say females have more common sense... that is relative. conversations seem to go something like this.

"i would look sexy on a GSXR 1000"

"im sure all the boys will pop stiffies at your funeral, providing they can make it open casket"

TechBMW wrote:

swatter555 wrote: Should people like that be the measure of a good learning bike? Should all advice be tailored to the lowest common denominator? Maybe so.

It was an Acquaintance, not a true friend, and yeah he was a real squid.

Anyway- I think that the advice given to a newb should be conservative (unless of course you really know the person) Because we are an online forum, it would be stupid of me NOT to be conservative with advice that I give. We all know that ultimately people make their own choices. unfortunately those choices are influenced by many outside factors. I think too many of those factors say "It's OK to go out and get a 600 sportbike to start out on" I try to remain conservative to counter those people.

I totally agree with you. I do try and keep my advice conservative too, but I do seem to recommend the SV real often

archanis wrote:ooooooooooooooh! *prints page*

ive been looking for this type of information forever. you would be surprised how many people dont tell you these things. a friend of mine is one of the gixxer 1000 quarters. for those of you that say females have more common sense... that is relative. conversations seem to go something like this.

"i would look sexy on a GSXR 1000"

"im sure all the boys will pop stiffies at your funeral, providing they can make it open casket"

Shes already got the bike, no use crying over spilled milk. Be a good friend and direct her to sites like this, and tell her not to ride with squids. At this point, if shes riding with the wrong people, she could easily hurt herself bad.