Responsability for others

Message

sapaul · #1 Unread post by **sapaul** » Tue Oct 18, 2005 3:08 am

I joined a BMW club 3 years ago and I am not comittee orientated, but lately they have asked me to lead more rides. I usually am the guy at the back or "tail end Charlie". Two reasons for this, when the group splits up the guy chasing is going faster than anyone else. Not that I am the fastest rider I just have the fastest bike. Two, TEC is supposed to help anyone that, gets lost, has a breakdown, falls off or needs medical attention.

We have four groups on group rides, 1: go your own way, 2: Brisk group, above 140kmh, 3: leisurely group, below 140kmh or, slow go your own way. I am usually TEC for group 2.

My question is; how much responsability do you take? It is individual choice as to who joins what group except for the 650's (not allowed in brisk group) so I will have cruisers, duals and tourers, men and women and different skills levels and I know that if I push the pace I may have a member that will try to keep up without having the skills.

#2 Unread post by **ZooTech** » Tue Oct 18, 2005 3:13 am

Rule #1 - Ride Your Own Ride

Yes, you are in a group...but everyone must understand that you are NOT tethered to one another. They must not become fixated on maintaining a constant distance between themselves and the bike ahead of them. They must take each and every turn as if they were alone. Anyone who blames your pace for their spill has personal accountability issues.

sapaul · #3 Unread post by **sapaul** » Tue Oct 18, 2005 3:30 am

ZooTech wrote:Rule #1 - Ride Your Own Ride

Thanks Zoo, much appreciated.

I usually am not wary when I ride with people I know. I am wondering if I will feel guilty if someone takes a spill.

#4 Unread post by **ZooTech** » Tue Oct 18, 2005 3:36 am

sapaul wrote:I am wondering if I will feel guilty if someone takes a spill.

That's understandable, and says a lot about your character. However, as long as you make Rule #1 perfectly clear ahead of time, and convey the level of risk involved with running in your group, everyone should understand that they alone are responsible for their safety throughout the duration of the ride. That doesn't mean you'll deliberately try to push people to their limits, or make the ride blatantly unsafe for anyone who is not as skilled as you, but it does erase all responsibility on your part for keeping them upright. Group riding does not automatically mean "follow the leader".

TechTMW · #5 Unread post by **TechTMW** » Tue Oct 18, 2005 7:57 am

A bit from Henry V then ...

So, if a son that is by his father sent about
merchandise do sinfully miscarry upon the sea, the
imputation of his wickedness by your rule, should be
imposed upon his father that sent him: or if a
servant, under his master's command transporting a
sum of money, be assailed by robbers and die in
many irreconciled iniquities, you may call the
business of the master the author of the servant's
damnation: but this is not so: the king is not
bound to answer the particular endings of his
soldiers, the father of his son, nor the master of
his servant; for they purpose not their death, when
they purpose their services.

... Every subject's duty is the king's; but every subject's
soul is his own.

Lay down the law and then let them make their own choices .. you are not guilty for their mistakes.

#6 Unread post by **cb360** » Tue Oct 18, 2005 8:50 am

Hey- thanks for the shakespeare. It classes up the forum a little

High_Side · #7 Unread post by **High_Side** » Tue Oct 18, 2005 3:00 pm

Why should riding be so stressful????? I don't get, or will I ever get the organized, structured yet clumsy organized to the nuts group rides that suck the fun outta something that is so awesome... I am slow to catch on however....

sapaul · #8 Unread post by **sapaul** » Tue Oct 18, 2005 8:51 pm

Thanks for the reply's guy's.

Believe it or not some guy's do not ride unless it is a structured ride. I had one guy call me for insurance on his bike, (I am a Broker) and he told me that he rides maybe six times a year and only on BMW runs. He got upset when I refused to insure him. I told him that he could not ride, how could he when he has a total of 24 hours a year experiance, no riding courses, nothing. I got the K1200S in May and have 10 000kms on already and I do not use the bike for commuting.
Some of the BMW guy's are cool but others wont' ride unless they have a leader and a TEC, especially on the weekend runs. Some of these guy's are high powered Exec's but take them out of their world and they are lost. They can't read maps, figure the logistics and panic if you take their cell phones off them. They are just happy to pay and follow like sheep but will be the first to bleat when something is not up t expectation. If it was not for the hardcore friends that I have in the club I probably would not bother. However my psychometric testing said that I have a need to be responsible for others.

Meanie · #9 Unread post by **Meanie** » Wed Oct 19, 2005 1:52 am

ZooTech wrote:Rule #1 - Ride Your Own Ride

Yes, you are in a group...but everyone must understand that you are NOT tethered to one another. They must not become fixated on maintaining a constant distance between themselves and the bike ahead of them. They must take each and every turn as if they were alone. Anyone who blames your pace for their spill has personal accountability issues.

I strongly disagree. If you are assuming the responsibility of leading a group, then some sacrifices must be made. If you enjoy riding at 100 MPH, that doesn't mean everyone "must" keep up with you. That is not a good leader. Gather the group and ask them what speed they are comfortable with. Ex: the speed limit: 5 miles over the limit: 10 miles over: etc.

Being a leader is setting examples. It's maintaining the pack and keeping your people safe. You don't make them do things that would get them killed because of your own risky riding style. If you are not willing to sacrifice your riding style to be a leader, then don't be a leader...period. If it's a rare ocassion to lead, then a small sacrifice will not kill you.

sapaul · #10 Unread post by **sapaul** » Wed Oct 19, 2005 6:11 am

I hear you Meanie, which brings me back to the original conumdrum. How much responsability do you take. The club has asked me to lead, I am assuming because they know I am responsible. This is not a delibrate "lets see who we can catch out thing" and the groups are split for that very reason. There are times when I have sat in the slower group just enjoying the country side, however this ride is going to be very technical on some of the best roads our country has to offer. Maybe I am just a little paranoid. I will however take all of the good advice and use it plus one further option. If any one wants to ride faster than me then they are welcome to go in front of me and wait at the next re group.